The
Loveline
Companion

ZT: I've got it!!!

I spent years watching soap operas. I finally kicked the habit in my early 20's, but for years I was addicted to All My Children. It was like heroin.

Anyway, All My Children is no longer on the air, so we'll have to go with Days of Our Lives as an example.

Anyone that knows soap operas knows that a lot of the characters are shady and sneaky. You need to learn a thing or two from these characters. Here's something a soap character would totally do.

When your ex makes it official by sending you paternity papers, you take a deep breath and remain calm. You go into the clinic and find the lowest paid shmuck in there. (Probably the janitor.) Make sure he speaks enough English to understand you. Tell him you really don't want to be a father to this kid. Open up an envelope and show him you have a thousand dollars. Ask him casually if he knows anyone who would be interested in exchanging jizz for cold hard cash?

When he smiles wide and grabs the cup, you're in the clear.

God speed, my friend!

—acm

A whole separate thread? Really?

Also, they don't use jizz for dna testing.

—Dusty TheHick

ACM - I'm the equivalent of Steve Allen when it comes to ideas.

Didn't you see my personality test results? I was born to anticipate problems, come up with ideas, think my way out of things (or maybe raised that way. I don't know).

The Strategic theme enables you to sort through the clutter and find the best route. It is not a skill that can be taught. It is a distinct way of thinking, a special perspective on the world at large. This perspective allows you to see patterns where others simply see complexity. Mindful of these patterns, you play out alternative scenarios, always asking, “What if this happened? Okay, well what if this happened?” This recurring question helps you see around the next corner. There you can evaluate accurately the potential obstacles. Guided by where you see each path leading, you start to make selections. You discard the paths that lead nowhere. You discard the paths that lead straight into resistance. You discard the paths that lead into a fog of confusion. You cull and make selections until you arrive at the chosen path-your strategy. Armed with your strategy, you strike forward. This is your Strategic theme at work: “What if?” Select. Strike.

Strategic Sounds like this:
Liam C., manufacturing plant manager: “It seems as if I can always see the consequences before anyone else can. I have to say to people, ‘Lift up your eyes, look down the road a ways. Let’s talk about where we are going to be next year so that when we get to this time next year, we don’t have the same problems.’ It seems obvious to me, but some people are just too focused on this month’s numbers, and everything is driven by that.”

Vivian T., television producer: “I used to love logic problems when I was a kid. You know, the ones where ‘if A implies B, and B equals C, does A equal C?’ Still today I am always playing out repercussions, seeing where things lead. I think it makes me a great interviewer. I know that nothing is an accident; every sign, every word, every tone of voice has significance. So I watch for these clues and play them out in my head, see where they lead, and then plan my questions to take advantage of what I have seen in my head.”

Simon T., human resources executive: “We really needed to take the union on at some stage, and I saw an opportunity, a very good issue to take them on. I could see that they were going in a direction that would lead them into all kinds of trouble if they continued down it. Lo and behold, they did continue down it, and when they arrived, there I was, ready and waiting. I suppose it just comes naturally to me to predict what someone else is going to do. And then when that person reacts, I can respond immediately because I have sat down and said, ‘Okay, if they do this, we’ll do this. If they do that, then we’ll do this other thing.’ It’s like when you tack in a sailboat. You head in one direction, but you jink one way, then another, planning and reacting, planning and reacting.

The problem is that shows like Loveline condition you to think all your ideas are bad, that your "antenna is bent" so you shouldn't trust yourself and you should only follow the advice of other people. That's really when I have all of my problems. I always find myself looking back on stuff that went to shit in my life, and thinking if I had went with that I thought the best idea was instead of what someone else told me to do, so much bullshit could have been avoided.

Anyway, I had more or less this idea, and there would be legal ramifications for falsifying the sample even if it's possible (like Gattaca style). If for any reason I need to be sampled again, and it was obvious that it wasn't the same DNA, I'd be in deeper shit.

There's perhaps versions of this that wouldn't involve falsifying a sample, but may not be technically possible. I could bribe pay the lab technician (most of people doing the actual testing are not that highly paid and probably just have a B.S. in like MCDB or something like that) and have him or her botch the test in a convincing way, if their procedures are problematic enough that this is possible. But the technician still might testify to this and that would be a problem, the janitor could do the same.

If all the other potential father's (assuming there are some) came back negative, eventually they'd do the testing again, and eventually it would be done correctly.

What it comes down to, if ever wanted to completely get out of paying her child support I'd have to:

(1) Die
(2) Be okay with being homeless and/or incarcerated.
(3) Go to a country that doesn't have reciprocity with the United States. I know, Israel is on the list, but it would probably take her a year or more to get me for child support there, and it may be so difficult that she would just opt not to do it. Is attractive because it's the only country where I have an "in" for citizenship.
(4) Change Federal Law.

In the meantime, I'm trying to find a better job or start a company, ideally making what I will likely have to pay her less painful.

—ZT-In

Also, they don't use jizz for dna testing.

Well, that's just fucking great.

—acm

didnt she say she didnt want your child support.

—stellagold

yeah, because the things my ex says are totally reliable.

Even if she was telling the truth, it doesn't matter for two reasons:

(1) Child support is retroactive and there is no statute of limitations on when a paternity suit can be filed. As the law is now, I could be 90 years old, and still get sued over this.
(2) The mother, legal guardians, the child or the government can bring a paternity suit against me. Even if she never does (she will once she wants money) it kind of doesn't matter, the chances are good that eventually someone else will. If she ever needs government assistance, for example, the government files paternity suits on her behalf until they find a father.

Even if it never happens, the threat of it still screws with everything else. Every financial decision I make I have to do knowing that I could get sued for some outrageous amount of money in the future. I'll have to explain that to anyone else I'm interested in starting a serious relationship with, and they'll have to be okay with knowing at any moment I could be tens of thousands of dollars more in debt.

—ZT-In

lots of fathers sign agreements wherein they agree never to pursue custodial or visitation rights to the child if the mother renounces any future claim for child support. what happened to not worrying about something that may not happen like pookie suggested and you agreed with?

—stellagold

here's a dumbed down article, but it is done all the time and you can find more legit sources on your own. actually looking into your rights is a lot more productive than railing against feminists and planning to move to tel aviv.

Many people wonder what is involved in giving up a father's parental rights. Any man can choose to give up his parental rights as long as another person, such as the child's mother or an adoptive guardian, is willing to take responsibility for the child. By relinquishing parental rights, the father is usually relieved from any obligation to his biological child.

Read more: Giving Up a Father's Parental Rights | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_4607235_giving-up-father_s-parental-rights.html#ixzz24jLd9yZO

—stellagold

Right, but those agreements aren't legally binding (in the sense that the mother, legal guardian or child can still bring a paternity suit after they're signed).

There is no such thing as legal paternal surrender in the United States, there's just these pseudo-legal agreements that hold less weight than prenups.

—ZT-In

it's pretty unlikely. your parental rights are revoked by the courts. when i used to work for a guardian ad litem program i worked with TPR cases frequently and it most definitely is legally binding.

—stellagold

In the sense that it would prevent someone from filing a paternity suit against me in the future, no it's not legally binding. When you sign one of those, a paternity suit can still be brought against you and then the judge decides what you have to pay.

Relinquishing "paternal rights" doesn't relinquish your financial obligation should the courts determine you have one, it just means "in the event that you're forced to pay child support, you have no legal rights to the child."

BTW - did you even read that entire page?

Warning
In some cases, a father might continue to be held responsible for financially supporting his biological child even after he gives up his paternal rights. For example, if the mother must seek governmental assistance in order to support the child, a judge has the authority to terminate parental rights. He can still require the father to pay child support until the child reaches adulthood. This results in the father still being financially responsible for the child without having any visitation rights or say in how the child is raised. An example of this is in the unpublished court opinion of Illinois DHFS v. Warner, Ill., Illinois Supreme Court, January 25, 2008.

• http://www.ehow.com/about_4607235_giving-up-father_s-parental-rights.html#ixzz24jLd9yZO

—ZT-In

Stella, did you forget to read that part or did you "forget" to read that part?

—acm

*cough*

—acm

i read that part. did you read this part?

it's pretty unlikely. --stellagold

By relinquishing parental rights, the father is usually relieved from any obligation to his biological child. --ehow

what you quoted changes nothing about what i said, that it's not likely. in my actual experience dealing with families in the court system i saw TPR releasing parents from obligations of support. because there is some situation in which a court could possibly find against it doesn't mean that in most cases the parent who signs away his rights will end up having to pay support. i mean if you really want to be a victim even if the woman said she doesn't want your support and you could get it recognized by the courts in writing then have at it.

acm, shut up you sycophant.

—stellagold

lulz

—Dusty TheHick

Let's see so the logic here is...

(1) Stella is the world's expert on everything involving family law.
(2) Stella has no motivation to misrepresent things she knows about family law.
(3) If Stella says something is unlikely, I should trust her completely and not worry about it even though her posts are condescending, sarcastic and the only source she cited is ehow.com and it contradicts her.
(4) ehow.com is highly and equally reliable for advice on building outdoor furniture and making difficult legal decisions that affect you for the rest of your life.

Knowing very little about what you do for a living, how good at it you are, and assuming that you're giving a reliable representation of your experience, the plural of anecdote is still not data.

If you look at any actual reliable source, say a publisher with a good reputation with content that is written by attorneys that cites it's sources, and if you've talked to a family law attorney... If you did those things, you might be ZT, and what you read might make make ehow.com not look like the world's best source for reliable legal information. And you also might be smart enough not to rely legal advice that, at best, is qualitative when it comes to the likelihood that your life will be fucked up especially when it comes from someone who obviously doesn't care much for your well-being.

You also might really appreciate legitimately sweet and pleasant women, and find they they don't typically identify as feminists, and that one of them is named acm. You also might find an amazing correlation between women who identify themselves as feminists and women who are vitriolic, condescending, and act like they're entitled to whatever they want.

Or you know, you might not. It kind of doesn't matter to me. Feminism is really just a philosophy excusing women for not acting like adults. If you want to continue to show off your neoteny, be my guest.

—ZT-In

jenkem

—Dusty TheHick

yeah no shit, I said ehow isn't a valid source repeatedly.

—stellagold

A legal scholar linking to ehow for legal information is like Neil deGrasse Tyson linking to Cosmo for physics information. Either it's a joke, or it's not really Neil deGrasse Tyson.

—ZT-In

here's a dumbed down article, but it is done all the time and you can find more legit sources on your own. -stellagold

A legal scholar linking to ehow for legal information is like Neil deGrasse Tyson linking to Cosmo for physics information. Either it's a joke, or it's not really Neil deGrasse Tyson.

he might if he were casually talking to a creationist on an internet forum and pointing out an easily accessible site for the general public he thought they might actually read/understand. if i'm doing legit legal research i'm getting paid.

You also might really appreciate legitimately sweet and pleasant women, and find they they don't typically identify as feminists, and that one of them is named acm.

i suppose you think anti-feminists like yourself come across as sweet and pleasant. i'm happy to put my adult credentials up against you and acm but that would be a waste of time.

—stellagold

i don't like womyn who aren't feminists.

—mandee

dude, zt, you have to calm down. how do i know? you said "gattaca".

there's got to be a less drastic solution to all this. THINK. start with "what would walter white do?"

—he sounds like a delight

^lol ilu. i'm watching this week's epi of breaking bad right now. crazy shit.

—stellagold

HSLAD - Not sure if you've watched the last season, but he tries to change his identity and then finds a clever way to kill all of his enemies.

—ZT-In

yeah that was part of the joke. like "drop down a gear and do what a maniacal drug kingpin would do"

—he sounds like a delight