The
Loveline
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Beat this.

• This is a poem about eating your pussy and Julian Assange - m4w - 32 (Capitol Hill)

—ZT-In

I was going to post a funny video of Christopher Walken on SNL that was all about orally pleasing a woman. But I can't find it. :-(

The idea of Julian eating pussy is pretty disgusting. But I still like your poem.

—acm

If I post again, I'm going to change the third line (maybe like below) and possibly the ending. I'm not sure why I care now. This is how you write poetry when you don't know the language you're writing it in.

—ZT-In

Shouldn't it be the status of my tallywacker?

—acm

In my understanding of the term as used in the Ozarks, tallywacker can be a penis or a vagina or I guess other forms of genitals.

—ZT-In

Oh, okay.

—acm

For example, in Mojo Nixon's 1991 classic, "She's Vibrator Dependent," his wife is quoted as desiring a vibrator that plugs in to the socket for the refrigerator to put 220 volts (instead of the more pedestrian 110) on her tallywacker.

—ZT-In

—acm

Nice use of minge. You don't hear that word enough outside of the UK. Also fanny means vagina there instead of butt.

—stellagold

here's my craigslist game:

w4m

yeah, i have a vag.

—stellagold

You should put that up and post the responses (with pictures).

—ZT-In

what responses did you get from your poem? anything?

—stellagold

I'm 99% sure they were all spam.

You actually used to be able to meet women on the craigslist personals that weren't creepy. Like I had been meeting regular women on craigslist since like 2003... Sometime around 2010 that really took a noise dive, I'd imagine that's when other more social dating sites started taking off.

—ZT-In

Subject: getting your dick sucked is another cure

Jul 12 12:42pm

I read your post on CL,I know you had something a little specific in mind, but I've got a very interesting proposition for you. It starts with you coming over to my place, stripping down and letting me stroke your shaft with my tongue till your cock is rock hard. I'll take you deep in my throat, feeling you as your cock throbs with pleasure, begging to release that load that you've been holding on to. I'll taste your precum and then when you are ready, I'll have your load too. I'm to getting you off in other ways if you are interested...

Have I gotten your attention yet? You need to know that I'm a DDF, Smooth, Sexy Bi Boy and you have to admit, I got you a little hard thinking about how awesome my mouth would feel on your rock hard cock. Come on, why don't you come over, let me get you off. I also give one hell of a massage, I can host you in cap hill off of 14th and Pennsylvania. This would be No Strings Attached, so you won't have to lift a finger, this would be discreet and you'll have a lot of fun. This is This is all about getting you off...so let's play.

(Included was a picture of his ass.)

—ZT-In

aww, that's sweet

—catloaf

If it were a persuasive writing course he'd get an 'A' butnot my a-hole.

—ZT-In

I'd let him s my d.

—stellagold

i don't understand why you won't do it. don't you want to just try having a man s ur d?

—mandee

for real, seems like guys would just hafta know what they're doing, right?

"leggo o' my ears, i know what i'm doin'!"

—catloaf

i don't understand why you won't do it. don't you want to just try having a man s ur d? —mandee

Who says I haven't? Just not f my a, only vegans with strapons can f my a.

—ZT-In

o ok tell us about it

—mandee

Reading Hitch 22 and about the times Christopher Hitchens hooked up with guys in college, I've decided more "straight" guys should come out about the times that they've been with men, because at lot of them have and probably more than they'll admit.

So, since you asked, guys have sucked my dick five times and I've fucked a guy once and sucked a dick once. By comparison, I've been to strip clubs eight times (the kind with with females, in case I'm confusing you).

Of the times I got my cock sucked, three were at a glory holes, one was a cross dresser, and another was a nice man in his 40s that lived by campus and would give me advice about life.

The time I sucked a dick, it was a fellow young man in a bathroom at CU and I made him wear a condom. I was like 19 or 20.

The guy I fucked was the cross dresser, but I didn't cum. So... maybe that doesn't count? I don't know.

I don't find men sexually attractive, there's just times I want to get off, but not jerk off, and playing the game with women is more work than I'm willing to invest. If hooking up with women wasn't so much work, I probably would have only hooked up with a guy once.

—ZT-In

BTW, Lena, this means I've fucked more guys than you. Catch up.

—ZT-In

*snickers*

—catloaf

welp i wasn't expecting that. so the time you sucked a dick, were you just curious?

BTW, Lena, this means I've fucked more guys that you. Catch up.

lol

—mandee

you just posted that article about the myth of sex addiction. are you trying to prove to yourself that you're not a sex addict?

—mandee

It took me awhile to get the concept of sex-positive education. In fact it really took Violet Blue and Christopher Hitchens tag teaming me to make it happen.

Addiction is about continuing to do things despite the negative consequences, not about cultural guilt. So far, all of the consequences have been pretty good, and sex is usually a good thing.

My only regret is not finishing when I fucked the cross dresser in the ass.

—ZT-In

are glory holez dangerous? someone could kick you in the dick/rape you. that seems like it could be a negative consequence. and you've put yourself in that situation several times.

—mandee

Dang, that's kinda shocking. Good for you for admitting to it. I didn't realize glory holes really existed. Where was it? Like a gay club bathroom stall or something?

—stellagold

So since we're on a Loveline site, what do you think about the fact that Adam would say that any man who would let another guy blow him or fuck another man in the ass is in denial if he says he isn't gay? Or that Drew would probably say that needing sex to the point where you'd let a guy blow you when you say you'd rather be with a woman but don't want to deal with the relationship stuff that it takes to be with one is in itself a sign of sex addiction?

—stellagold

Twice in a sex store, and once in a bathroom.

Yeah, there's a theoretical chance that you could stick your dick in a glory hole and someone could chop it off or do something else crazy. Probably about the same chance that you'd meet a serial killer on craigslist. Most people in the world don't want to chop your dick off (if you have one), and when people do it makes the national news and so far all of the dick choppers I've heard of have been women.

If you're like the guy who emailed me on craigslist, you actually like dick and are not likely to chop off erect dicks because you're such a fan of them, and I can't imagine they stay erect very long after chopping them off. Bad things that are likely to happen with a glory hole are maybe a guy who has a raging case of herpes on his mouth, but is hungry for semen and decides to go out anyway. Or if a guy with AIDS was bleeding from his mouth and sucked your dick. But generally you get a peek at the guy who is about to suck your dick, and you could leave if he's drooling blood or pus (again, does not seem to be common). The suckers assume much more of the risk there, but.. I don't know, I get tested and I don't have anything they're able to test for or reason to suspect things they can't, but if I had something or especially if I had something and had an outbreak, I'd like to think I wouldn't have someone suck me off at a glory hole. You could wear condoms, but I think I've been the only person to hookup with someone in such a scenario who has used one. So... yeah, there's an element of trust there, and there is risk for sure, but... isn't there always? The biggest risk in a lot of those situations is that there could be police watching.

The times I was in a sex shop, I was in an arcade and I was watching straight porn and getting my dick sucked by a guy I couldn't see, that was kind of a nice combination. If you have to get your dick sucked by a guy, I recommend doing it that way. There was porn going with the cross dresser too, and that made it.... easier.

Since it came up (no pun intended) gay men really don't seem to be that much better at sucking dick than relatively experienced women (although there are some of women who never seem to really figure it out). You either know how to suck dick, or you don't.

—ZT-In

I didn't realize glory holes really existed.

same

—catloaf

So since we're on a Loveline site, what do you think about the fact that Adam would say that any man who would let another guy blow him or fuck another man in the ass is in denial if he says he isn't gay? Or that Drew would probably say that needing sex to the point where you'd let a guy blow you when you say you'd rather be with a woman but don't want to deal with the relationship stuff that it takes to be with one is in itself a sign of sex addiction? —stellagold

I agree with Dan Savage. From "This Is Our Youth" (February 19th, 2009):

[Dr. Drew is] an asshole-o-phobe—and a BDSM-o-phobe, a premarital-sex-o-phobe, a three-way-o-phobe, etc. Basically, when it comes to human sexuality, there's not a lot of daylight between Dr. Drew and Pope Benedict XVI.

I also don't know what I'd do to "treat it." If you hookup with someone of your same sex like... less than once every year, and there's no real consequence to speak of, that makes you an addict? That's fucking retarded.

In Adam's early early early days on Loveline, he used to say things like (and this is a near quote from memory) "I think everyone is gay for certain parts of their life." Which I would agree with. I mean, a kind of unpleasant but illustrative example -- if you're in prison and you have prison sex (like all people who are in prison for a long time do, male or female), you're gay? Or do you just want to fuck something other than your hand after awhile?

In my opinion after listening to a lot of old Lovelines, sometime around September 11, 2001, Adam and Drew started on a path to extreme conservativism. I'm not even sure if they realized it, but I feel like if you listen to them you can tell about when it started and that was it. By 2005, it was really obvious, and now Adam isn't much different from Mitt Romney. If anything, Mitt Romney is funnier.

—ZT-In

are glory holez dangerous? someone could kick you in the dick/rape you.

tee hee hee!

ZT, were you sexually abused? Not judging at all. Just curious.

EDIT: Sometimes I feel really weird and even paranoid about all the stuff I have shared on this board with you guys. And then I read something like this and I don't feel so weird. We're all a bunch of freaks. It's all good. :-D

—acm

also not judging--i'm genuinely fascinated and curious about this revelation.

another was a nice man in his 40s that lived by campus and would give me advice about life.

this particular encounter seems more intimate. did you have feelings for this guy? and what kind of advice? what was the best advice he gave you?

and, on a lighter note, is your behymen still intact?

—catloaf

ZT, were you sexually abused? Not judging at all. Just curious. —acm

Fairly recently, I was with this horrible woman who lied to me about being on birth control. As far as I know she is more than 6 months pregnant now and refuses to talk with me. If that's not abuse, I don't know what is. I feel like I'm dying when I think about it. In the time since I found out, 5 of my 8 strip club visits have occurred, 3 of the same sex hookups and I have about 2 drinks a day (compared to drinking once or twice a month before). In context those numbers spread over 6 months aren't that bad, but if society is capricious enough to hate me for knocking someone up who won't talk to me, I care less about what the society thinks of me. If I could afford it, I'd like to go out like Nicolas Cage in Leaving Las Vegas. My blood pressure is about back to normal, but I'm grinding my teeth at night, my jaw hurts during the day, and I have really obnoxious headaches.

Other than that, no. I was never sexually abused as a child (just as an adult). If any kind of sex has caused me problems so far, it was when I had it with a Catholic woman in her mid 30s. If I was following Drew's logic, I should stop sleeping with women.

this particular encounter seems more intimate. did you have feelings for this guy? and what kind of advice? what was the best advice he gave you? —catloaf

Hmm... I kind of lied to him because I didn't really have anyone I could talk to at the time. I was maybe 18 or 19 and most people wouldn't take me seriously when I told them I was having problems concentrating in school. He would listen even though a lot of what I was telling him were half-truths. If anything I feel bad about lying to him. I saw him on campus periodically in the years following, and that was awkward.

and, on a lighter note, is your behymen still intact? —catloaf

I've never met a vegan cheerleader that will fuck me with a strap-on. So, yes. That seems way too risky to do with a gay man, and doesn't sound... fun.

—ZT-In

i'm fascinated by this as well (not judging). i still wanna hear about what happened when you gave a fellow young man a bj.

—mandee

I wanna hear about what happened when you gave it to a dude up the a.

—stellagold

The cross dresser was in finance and had one of the nicest condos I've seen in Denver. So... It seemed less disgusting for some reason and I've always wished I knew more people in finance, so I figured fucking a guy in the ass wouldn't be too much different from fucking a woman in the ass (and I've been with a few girls who asked for that), and he had just given me a blowjob, and there was porn on so I could easily think about something else.

The guy I gave a BJ to was in a bathroom on campus that everyone knew dudes hooked up in. I was like 19 or 20 and figured I should probably give before I received and that if he was wearing a condom it would be just like sucking on a latex glove or something like that, and not exactly the same as sucking some guys dick. A little bit in, we both heard the door swing open and went back in to the stalls. I heard him take off the condom and leave. I can't remember exactly what he looked like, but he was college aged. I don't think I ever saw him again.

—ZT-In

i'm definitely more vulnerable in nice places too

—mandee

He was the one getting fucked in the ass.

—ZT-In

one day i'm going to live in a nice condo and wear dresses and have strange men come over and fuck me in the ass. a life of luxury.

—mandee

I'm straight, and not religious at all but watching two men going at it is like watching somebody's Achilles tendon get cut off. It repulses me on a visceral level. So it really puzzles me how men in prison would fuck each other and not be gay. If every woman on this planet is gone I would just rely on masturbation and would not seek for a male stimulation for the rest of my life. ZT, it seems like you don't find the male organ sexually attractive or appealing at all(if he was wearing a condom it would be just like sucking on a latex glove or something like that, and not exactly the same as sucking some guys dick.) So why do you do it? The way you describe it sounds like someone is holding you at gunpoint or something.

—HocusPocus

The way you describe it sounds like someone is holding you at gunpoint or something.

i didn't get that at all, to me it felt more ... i dunno, blasé?

zt, do any of your friends irl know? would it bother you if they did? and the cross dresser, was it just the one time?

—catloaf

It repulses me on a visceral level.

ur prob gay fyi

—mandee

Hmm... I've told most of my close friends. But a lot of my friends don't know about all the girls I've had sex with either. It's generally not relevant, and for the handful of times I was interested in having a relationship with a,man, I really didn't want it to last more than an hour and I really didn't want to see them again (except for maybe the guy with the nice condo, but mostly to talk about finance). So, I don't think of any of the as prospects or anything like that. If a close friend asked or genuinely said something homophobic, I would tell them (probably with less detail).

—ZT-In

ur prob gay fyi

How so?

—HocusPocus

i remember drew talking several times about men who don't identify as gay or bi but rather as straight men who have sex with other men. i guess this qualifies?

—catloaf

ps--I feel like Spock. In my mind, I keep saying "Fascinating."

—catloaf

How so?

you feeling the need to ask this just proves everything.

—mandee

Well, one, if you're sincere about your statement then you're saying that if I find something gross that means I'm attracted to it? Interesting logic.

And two, and it would be funny if it's an insult, because you were actually putting down gay people while attacking me over something I said that wasn't homophobic yet somehow you perceived it that way.

so that's why I ask.

—HocusPocus

people who are so grossed out by homosexuality are totes gay.

and btw what you said was definitely homophobic.

—mandee

Because I'm gross out by the homosexual act that makes me a homophobe and a closet gay? wtf are you smoking?

—HocusPocus

people who are so grossed out by homosexuality are totes gay.

i don't think that's necessarily so. i think some people, especially men, genuinely feel the response HocPoc described and it doesn't mean anything homophobic or closeted. what's that saying, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?" or some shit?

—catloaf

I'm not sure if mandee was just joking around or referencing a study that launched a slate of news stories in the spring like the one below.

personally i think the extreme social shaming for males of gay sex has a lot to do with the "visceral reaction" adam and other men make a big deal about proving some big point about how innately hetero they are. if they weren't conditioned against it so harshly i suspect the reaction would be more "meh, doesn't do it for me", like a food you don't care for or lesbo sex pix are for me (cuz i dont think women experience the same kind of conditioning).

i didn't get that at all, to me it felt more ... i dunno, blasé?

whether it's blase or at gunpoint it does seem strange that someone would do something they have to mentally pretend is not really going down like it is, or have to justify to oneself as being like something else.

• Homophobic? Maybe You’re Gay

—stellagold

Mandee:

I disagree. A man can truthfully say he has no no problem with two gay guys loving each other and spending the rest of their lives together. At the same time, this same man can be grossed out by two gay men fucking each other. Straight guys don't want to see that. Denying otherwise, is just plain stupid!

There are no perfectly straight men out there that say to each other: "Hey, let's go online and watch some gay porn. Watching two men suck each other off and fuck each other in the ass sounds like a great evening!"

There are NO men that do this. If a man chooses to do this, he is either gay or bi-curious. Straight men do not want to watch gay porn. That doesn't mean they hate gay men or want to burn down a gay bar. They just don't have any desire to see this. Dr. Drew actually talked about men having negative (feeling threatened) responses to gay pictures on their brain scans. These men that were tested were heterosexual men who did not hate gay men. They just didn't want to see gay images. It may sound insensitive or homophobic, but according to Drew, it's scientific.

The vast majority of straight guys have no desire to see two men playing tonsil hockey with each other. Unless this is your first day on this planet, you should know this. It's pretty fucking obvious.

—acm

i'm saying this as a fact, not as an opinion: anyone who says they are grossed out by a display of homosexuality is wrong.
i'm not saying that men are supposed to be turned on by 2 dudes kissing, but any reaction besides "oh ok, that's happening" is wrong. it's not okay to have that kind of visceral reaction and if you do and believe you're truly not homophobic, then you should keep it to yourself or figure out why you feel that way because you're adding to a huge problem in this country.
it's the knowledge that there are people that are disgusted by them that make gay people afraid to come out or feel ashamed of themselves.

—mandee

todd glass talks about this thing where people are 80 or 90% ok with homosexuality, but there's still that little percentage of homophobia that people have. an example of that is hocpoc who claims he's fine with gay people but still says he's grossed out by it. those people are why gay marriage isn't legal. because not enough people are fully 100% on board, saying queers are completely normal, and no different from anyone else.
i'm so drunk. no one wants to talk about this? no one said anything all day.
i bought a book about columbine. wanna talk about it

—mandee

If Drew's reads the scholarly literature on human sexuality with the same kind of horse-blinders as he does addiction, I wouldn't take anything he says as a complete picture of science's understanding if the issue, and certainly not neutral.

I've been sexually active for 14 years, this has happened 5 times out of the at least 350 (more if you count times that were just oral) times I've had sex in that time. So however you what to classify me, remember this is less than 0.02% of my sexual intercourse.

I'm totally okay with being 99.98% straight.

—ZT-In

I'm surprised by the lack of comments on here today as well.

I hate when I'm having a crappy day and someone comes along and craps all over me. Thanks, pal. Thanks a lot...

—acm

i read mandees post to jason and he "agrees whole heartedly"

"when you read ontd and they keep posting gay porn gifs, i don't really care but it doesn't turn me on."

—stefanie

i've got a buncha thots i dont think anyone wants to read, so here goes.

-i agree w/ mandee that it's homophobic to express disgust. saying something like i'm cool with azns but when i see them out in public touching it just makes me sick would be racist rite? anytime there's a "them" it's a prety good indiciation you're in that territory.

-agin i dont understand worrying about straightness percentages to seem normal or something. nothing wrong with it if its what you want to do.

-i dont think ppl like hocpoc are why the geys cant marry. its the people from around here in the south who flat out hate queers and arent afraid to tell them is why.

-the research drew talked about was that there was an increase in activity in parts of brains of self identified straight men when shown certain images. that doesn't explain why there was an increase in activity, that's conjecture. there's lots of reasons someone might register it as a threat when hooked up to monitors in a research center and gay sex images are flashed in front of them. it could be because like i said they'd been teased their whole lives about gayness and seeing it is threatening to them. drew interprets everything through the lens of his normalcy viewer of the world but correlations (swelling in penises and brain activity in tandem with images on a screen) does not imply causation.

—stellagold

-agin i dont understand worrying about straightness percentages to seem normal or something. nothing wrong with it if its what you want to do. —stellagold

i remember drew talking several times about men who don't identify as gay or bi but rather as straight men who have sex with other men. i guess this qualifies? —catloaf

I'd only say here, I have to think most men who identify as "straight" have a similar percentage to mine but are scared to talk about it because they're afraid if they admit to having any kind of sex with another man they will be labeled "bi" or "gay" or something less than straight. They know how hard the world can be on gays (and it's likely they've been part of it before) and would rather keep it a deep secret than risk the same kind of treatment. I'd also say that the opposite has not been true in my experience, for example the occasions I've heard gay men mention that they've slept with women before, no one started calling them straight or bi or a gay man who likes to sleep with women.

Sexual orientation/identity is just another thing that arises from the circumstances of one's life, it's not black and white, and it's impermanent like everything else.

That's all I have to say about that.

—ZT-In

My point is: having a "threat" response towards a gay pic doesn't make you a homophobe who wants to go out and beat up a bunch of gay guys, Mandee. It's just science. Not everything science says is supportive of the liberal agenda. Like when studies show that kids raised without dads are more likely to commit crimes, abuse drugs, and so on and so on, liberals get all butt-hurt and say it's a bullshit study. No, it's not. Sometimes science reveals something we did not expect, or it makes us take a second look at what we thought we believed.

—acm

As a liberal my agenda during the summer involves drinking Rockstars, whenever possible going to Liks or Sweet Action with girls who like to smile, getting a new job, working on some hip projects, swimming, running, watching MMA, and freaky sex.

ACM - You may want to tell Bill O'Reilly or whoever else has told you about the liberal agenda, because I'm pretty sure they're all mixed up about what we do.

—ZT-In

I don't like Bill O'Reilly. For a while, I liked parts of his show and then I took a good look at him and realized he was a miserable man who was wrong about many things. Now I can't watch his show.

You're right: liberal agenda sounds funny when I say it out loud. But my point still stands.

Where's laith?

—acm

My point is: having a "threat" response towards a gay pic doesn't make you a homophobe who wants to go out and beat up a bunch of gay guys, Mandee. It's just science. Not everything science says is supportive of the liberal agenda. Like when studies show that kids raised without dads are more likely to commit crimes, abuse drugs, and so on and so on, liberals get all butt-hurt and say it's a bullshit study. No, it's not. Sometimes science reveals something we did not expect, or it makes us take a second look at what we thought we believed.

um sources please. you sound insane, otherwise.

—stefanie

i'm saying this as a fact, not as an opinion: anyone who says they are grossed out by a display of homosexuality is wrong.
i'm not saying that men are supposed to be turned on by 2 dudes kissing, but any reaction besides "oh ok, that's happening" is wrong. it's not okay to have that kind of visceral reaction and if you do and believe you're truly not homophobic, then you should keep it to yourself or figure out why you feel that way because you're adding to a huge problem in this country.

No, it's people like you with your type of thinking who's causing this kind of conflict in this world. I don't understand why you need to label an innate feeling as either 'right' or 'wrong'. How is your mentality different than those Christians who are compelled to tell the gays that their reaction toward homosexual act is 'wrong' and they need to be rewired to think otherwise.

I don't see why gay people shouldn't have the right to get married or live their lifestyle. I have no problem seeing them holding hands on the street. I feel weird seeing them kissing but I don't point my finger and go "ew!" I only get squeamish and have to turn my face away when they put their organs in each others' orifices. But do they do that out in public? NO! So how the hell can I hinder the gay movement you lunatic!?

—HocusPocus

Which one are you talking about? I have studies about fathers:

Kids without dads

Kids without dads stats

I spent ten minutes searching for what Dr. Drew discussed. I did not find anything. In my defense, he is a doctor and I trusted what he was saying. I don't know if that data is out there, but I did search. I will send him an email and ask him to reference the study. Maybe if a few of us do it and name drop TLC, he will get back to us.

If you and Mandee think that the average straight man can curl up with a box of popcorn and watch a gay porn all the way through without flinching once, then you guys seriously need to wonder outside your comfort zones. You obviously don't know dick about the average straight man.

—acm

I don't see why gay people shouldn't have the right to get married or live their lifestyle. I have no problem seeing them holding hands on the street. I feel weird seeing them kissing but I don't point my finger and go "ew!" I only get squeamish and have to turn my face away when they put their organs in each others' orifices. But do they do that out in public? NO! So how the hell can I hinder the gay movement you lunatic!?

—HocusPocus

^This.

By Mandee and Stella's logic we would all have no problem watching our parents fucking in front of us. They love each other and they are commited to each other. That's wonderful isn't it? So, why shouldn't we watch them get naked and sweaty in front of us?

Because some shit, we just don't want to see! Why is that so hard to wrap your brains around?

—acm

Dr. Drew:

I'm from The Loveline Companion Forum. You've heard of it, right? We all got into an argument on TLC about the brain scans of heterosexual men and the "threat" responses you described. The first part of the link is full of funny stuff. The last few posts contain the arguing.

http://www.dolland.net/loveline/forum/threads/411304.html?n=73

Some of us think it's b.s. and others think it's true. The problem is, we can't find the study you were discussing on the show. Do you have a link handy? That would be awesome!

Thanks, Dr. Drew!

acm

—acm

you're so extreme it's insane. no one said anything about wanting to watch gay porn or that homophobia = beating up gay people. the fact that one does not realize they are being homophobic when they say ew to gays showing affection is a huge problem.
not being racist but when i see black people kissing, it grosses me out and i have to turn away. i'm not racist or anything, it's just science. uh, no. that's not acceptable.

—mandee

This isn't the study, but is interesting in the context of this conversation (looking for the one Drew mentioned, will get back to you)

Abstract
The aim of this fMRI study was to explore brain structures that are involved in the processing of erotic and disgust-inducing pictures. The stimuli were chosen to trigger approach and withdrawal tendencies, respectively. By adding sadomasochistic (SM) scenes to the design and examining 12 subjects with and 12 subjects without sadomasochistic preferences, we introduced a picture category that induced erotic pleasure in one sample and disgust in the other sample. Since we also presented neutral pictures, all subjects viewed pictures of four different categories: neutral, disgust-inducing, erotic, and SM erotic pictures.

The analysis indicated that several brain structures are commonly involved in the processing of disgust-inducing and erotic pictures (occipital cortex, hippocampus, thalamus, and the amygdala). The ventral striatum was specifically activated when subjects saw highly sexually arousing pictures. This indicates the involvement of the human reward system during the processing of visual erotica.

Keywords
fMRI; Emotion; Disgust; Pleasure; Sex behavior; Ventral striatum; Reward system

• Erotic and disgust-inducing pictures—Differences in the hemodynamic responses of the brain

—ZT-In

I thought for sure this one was it for a second (given the date it was published, and because I remembered that episode being in like 2004ish), but apparently not. Also interesting in context of this conversation.

Abstract
The magnetic equivalent of the contingent negative variation (CMV) and visual evoked magnetic fields (VEF) in anticipation of pictures of opposite-sex nude, same-sex nude, and neutral photographs has been recorded with whole-head MEG in 12 males and 12 females. Subjective ratings of valence indicated a strong gender effect. While females rated both male and female nudes as neutral, males rated male nudes similar to neutrals but female nudes received higher scores of pleasantness. Gender differences were also found for ratings of picture-induced arousal. While females rated male and female nudes as equally arousing, males attributed more arousal to opposite-sex nudes. The CMV instead revealed, for both male and female participants, higher amplitudes for opposite-sex nudes. VEF in response to nudes revealed two components with mean latencies of 126 and 203 ms. The amplitude of the first component was stronger in males than in females, and only in males the magnetic activity was increased in response to male and female nudes compared to neutral pictures. For the second component the mean magnetic activity was higher in response to nudes than to neutral contents for both male and female participants. The results are discussed in terms of an evolutionary view of sexual selection, which predicts a greater response in male subjects to stimuli relevant for mate choice.

Keywords
MEG; Physical attractiveness; Visual evoked magnetic field; Contingent negative variation; Sexual arousal

• Gender differences in response to pictures of nudes: a magnetoencephalographic study

—ZT-In

acm, you don't understand science. just because there was a vague mention of a study on loveline by dr. drew where images of gay sex correlated with brain activity in supposed threat centers (also highly theoretical at this point in our understanding of the brain) in some men proves nothing that you're trying to say it does. there are also studies showing that women have sexual arousal responses when watching animals like apes fucking. by your logic we could extrapolate that that means that women want to fuck apes. actually we don't know exactly what it means. that's the nature of science and the whole black box phenomenon. we see stimulation in relation to stimuli and we can have theories about what it might mean but there is no clear cut explanation like you're trying to say there is that such data tells us things like "straight men are naturally repulsed by gay sex and that's totally normal".

—stellagold

I don't understand why you need to label an innate feeling as either 'right' or 'wrong'.

what makes you so sure it's an innate feeling?

—stellagold

So, poking around and skimming some studies on the topic, I'm not finding anything close to what Drew mentioned (please do double check me, it's always possible I missed it). Generally even if you can't find a specific study, you'll see it mentioned in the discussion sections of similar studies, and I'm not turning up anything like what he described. For example, have a look at the following on the topic (linking to full text articles where possible):

• Men and women differ in amygdala response to visual sexual stimuli.


• Neural Activation Toward Erotic Stimuli in Homosexual and Heterosexual Males


• A brief review and discussion of sex differences in the specificity of sexual arousal


• The Sexual Response


• Sexual arousal in men: A review and conceptual analysis


• A functional endophenotype for sexual orientation in humans


• Neural Correlates of Sexual Arousal in Homosexual and Heterosexual Men


• Patterns of Brain Activation during Visually Evoked Sexual Arousal Differ between Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

Now, I did find some interesting papers on neurological, physiological and political correlates of what's called "disgust sensitivity" and similarly "moral hypervigilance" that may be discussing something closer to what Drew was talking about. If you skim some of these, I can definitely see how people with high disgust sensitivity and/or moral hypervigilance would have the kind of reactions Drew described, and he may have been looking at some article reviewing a sample group like that. You might want to skim some of these:

• Emotions in sexual morality: Testing the separate elicitors of anger and disgust


• Disgust, scrupulosity and conservative attitudes about sex: Evidence for amediationalmodel of homophobia


• Neural correlates of disgust- and fear-conditioned responses


• The Ick Factor: Physiological Sensitivity to Disgust as a Predictor of Political Attitudes


• Moral hypervigilance: The influence of disgust sensitivity in the moral domain.


• Disgust Sensitivity and the Neurophysiology of Left-Right Political Orientations

The underlying issue here may be that conservatives are way too sensitive. :)

—ZT-In

Because I wasn't brought up in an environment where they told me those acts are considered wrong, sick, or deviant.

—HocusPocus

San Francisco?

—ZT-In

I'm going to call up my parents and ask if I can watch them have sex. It's natural and beautiful, so why shouldn't I want to see it? And who knows? I might even learn a thing or two. I hope they don't mind...

—acm

Are your parents gay? Because that would be strange.

—ZT-In

That would change everything.

—acm

i didn't read your post properly and i thought you meant children raised by gay parents were more likely to blahblahblah.

—stefanie

I've been sexually active for 14 years, this has happened 5 times out of the at least 350 (more if you count times that were just oral) times I've had sex in that time. So however you what to classify me, remember this is less than 0.02% of my sexual intercourse.

I'm totally okay with being 99.98% straight.

this is not to piss on your point, but when i read that i thought: i've had sex with my husband probably 1,000 times over the last 9 years. i would never, but for argument's sake, let's say i also had sex with 6 random strangers during that time. if this were the case i wouldn't classify myself as 99.994% faithful, i would classify myself as a cheater.

—catloaf

Even if it was six other women?

—ZT-In

no one should feel the need to define their sexuality with specific terms. you just is who you is.

—mandee

Even if it was six other women?

yup

—catloaf

Because I would let any girlfriend of mine "cheat" on me with girls just about as much as she wanted (so long as she still loved me, just wanted to be a with a woman and wasn't doing it to sabotage the relationship).

Somehow it's way worse if it was men. I'm not sure how that works, but I can say if she slept Cris Cyborg it would not be cool.

—ZT-In

I wouldn't be cool with my boyfriend or husband being bi. It's not because I think he's a bad person. I just want to know that when he's coming inside me, he's thinking only about how good my lady parts feel. I shouldn't have to think about him wanting to be with a man. I want to know that my man is perfectly fine with the parts I have.

Plus, if he were bi, I'd have to be suspicous of everyone he was friendly with. That would be exhausting!

—acm

I just want to know that when he's coming inside me, he's thinking only about how good my lady parts feel.

In the 350+ times I've finished while penetrating a female, that thought has never ever ever ever crossed my mind. When I'm having sex what's basically going through my mind is one of these things (in a LTR I'll experience all of these at one point or another):

- "YAY I'M FUCKING!!!" and then I eventually come in the process
- "I'M FUCKING AND THIS IS KIND OF FUN BUT I WISH THIS GIRL WOULD FINISH SO I CAN GO TO BED OR WHATEVER" and if I come there I'm often thinking of someone else or kind of nothing at all
- "I'M REALLY JUST FUCKING THIS GIRL TO BE POLITE AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GO HOME ASAP" and if I come I'm definitely thinking about someone else or my mind is clear

The one thing I really hate is when women expect you to come like your boss expects you to finish a project. Even if you've fucked a girl like that for more than an hour, if you haven't come, I hate it when they get horribly disappointed.

There are some girls who, for my tastes, are designed more for love than others. But that has fairly little to do with their vaginas and more of their overall physique. For instance I like thick girls (the body type girls seem to have or develop commonly among the volleyball, softball and sometimes basketball players) and sinewy girls (the kind of selectively muscular and toned body type that girls get when they do a lot of yoga). There is such a thing as a perfect hybrid of the two, like Gina Carano in this photo.

I don't like girls that are thin, but only because the live on diet coke and cigarettes. They're like these fleshy weak fragile sickly abominations, and it's a turn off. If girls aren't going to exercise at all, I'd rather they have a little more meat on their bones than live on a diet like that.

—ZT-In

Also, even Blind Boy shifted a man (at least once, 3:37).

I've never shifted the Earth, but I might.

—ZT-In

"There are some girls who, for my tastes, are designed more for love than others."

I agree. Except for me, I'm not ready to definitively say that there is a correlation between body type and quality of sex. Some girls are just way more into it than other girls. They're more affectionate, confident with their own sexuality and care more about love in general. Whereas other girls have an "alright, let's just get this over with" kind of attitude.

—he sounds like a delight

I've heard that hot chicks/hot guys tend to suck in bed because they don't really try hard enough to please.

What you need is a good looking person with low self esteem. Then you're set!

—acm

Hmm... No, I've been with fat chicks, and they're by no means all good in bed or even better than average in general.

—ZT-In

I love to please.

I need sex. >:-(

—acm

Enthusiasm is a big part of it (for me), but it's not everything. Everyone has a different idea of what "good sex" is. There's some agreement, but like man... Some girls, no matter how enthusiastic they are just never learned how to suck/jerk off a dick, and at a certain point "you can't teach old dogs new tricks."

—ZT-In

My sleep cycle is utterly fucked. :-(

ZT: You will love the fuck out of this.

—acm

LOL "animals don't know how to rendezvous"

—catloaf

This is up. So now I'm going to sit back, relax, and wait for the hot chicks to start contacting me about buying this shit. Then I'll sweet talk them, lay them down, and hone them off.

• Rubbermaid Totelocker Full of Computer Parts and Cables - $50

—ZT-In

SING KARAOKE WITH ME - m4w - 32 (Capitol Hill)
Date: 2012-08-23, 9:12PM MDT

WE ARE GOING TO GO WHEREVER ON CAPITOL HILL HAS KARAOKE, AND WE ARE GOING TO SING. LOOK AT MY PHOTO.

ROCK OVER HIKING, ROCK ON KARAOKE.

CAPITOL HILL, YOU WILL GET REAL ON IT.

• http://denver.craigslist.org/stp/3225754874.html

—ZT-In

FYI - I would do the same thing.

But wouldn't call after hooking up.

—ZT-In