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doingdoingdoing |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 3:48 PM So, this question is mainly for the married TLCers out there (with the exception of shitlick).
Did sex decline after marriage, or if you lived in sin first, during cohabitation?
I'm just wondering... my boyfriend and I have lived together for several years and we're committed and all that, but after about a year of cohab, physically we became more like... friends, for lack of a better term. Also it seems like the more the relationship evened out emotionally [ie less fighting, less breakup/makeups, more understanding of each other overall] the less action there was (which is not to say there isn't plenty of affection physically and otherwise - there is). This decline is mainly from his side, and I would be more worried about this if there weren't countless women calling in to loveline with the same deal so I guess it's pretty common, but I don't think Drew ever really acknowledged just how often it occurred or why. Just wondering the thoughts of you respectable TLC pplz on why this happens in general-
One more question - does it ever seem like too much of a sacrifice to never have the excitement of following through on an attraction to someone new? Sex in a committed relationship can be great but there's something to "hooking up" (hate that term) with someone you're just incredibly attracted to just because you're attracted to them that seems just as much a fundamental drive as having trust, honesty, and all that crap. —doingdoingdoing |
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plurry |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Edited Friday, June 13, 2008 at 4:49 PM i really, really feel you on this one. i've had two long term relationships, one of five years, one of three. in both cases, i lost interest sexually somewhere around the second year. i still cared about them deeply, and it was more a exclusive friendship than it was.. anything else. it comes down to a conflict, "i love you too much to fuck you, and i REALLY, REALLY want to fuck.. but not you for a change." it's a compliment and an insult. relationships can transcend sex. drew has said that lesbian relationships often go this way. he's also mentioned that some men try (and i guess a certain amount succeed) to have lesbian-esque relationships with their girlfriends.
i've often wondered if i was one of these guys. i am very concerned this will happen again with my current gf, as we approach the 9th month of our relationship.
i've begun to see the signs in myself going this direction again, and i don't like it. my desire to have sex with other girls (see coolidge effect) persists and slowly becomes elevated to the point of frustration. it's hard to convert that energy over to your gf in the bedroom when your penis begins to see her as an object in the way of a field of 'tang. you can think to yourself, "with the lights out, i could pretend it's someone else.", but that won't work if you have any sort of conscience. they say when the sex drive towards the other is gone when you're fairly young, it means you need to move on.
when you get older, you don't want to change partners every year just because sex with them isn't as arousing as it used to be. infidelity is obviously not an answer, but it sure as fuck is tempting. when you start thinking to yourself, "wow. this could be the last girl i'm ever going to have sex with, and i'm only (fill in your age)", it can bum you out even if you are in love with your significant other. i really don't know what to say to you other than i've gone through the same thing twice, and i'm hoping i don't have to again. —plurry |
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striekar |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 4:51 PM It stayed the same: a LOT. I am a sexual compulsive though. —striekar |
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anobody |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 6:03 PM I'm no longer married, but I once was, so factor that in as you will. Did sex decline after marriage, or if you lived in sin first, during cohabitation? We lived together first. There was a steady decline that came long before getting married. Getting married, itself, didn't really make much of an impact either way (things just kept tapering off to the point where we'd have sex once a month, and even just once every several near the end). The stuff you're saying sounds very similar to how my ex described her experience. The one major difference is that towards the end, she didn't want to kiss or hug or even hold hands. My feeling on this is that you're probably done with the relationship but you just don't want to admit that to yourself. If you had more experience and were a few more relationships in, the same situation wouldn't necessarily be a killer, but at this point, I'm not optimistic. Unless you can accept things as they may be, seriously work on the relationship, and put the idea that you'll be able to find something better outside out of your mind, I'd worry that you'll find this ends up being a slow death for your relationship. I'm not saying that it's hopeless, but as hard as it would be, if I were in your position then knowing what I do now, I'd have a serious talk with your boyfriend and probably end up breaking things off - at least for awhile to give you both a chance to explore your options (though I'd guess that this would probably would end up becoming a permanent break). Whatever you do, I'd absolutely say don't get married or pregnant until you can either work the sex out or resolve this within yourself and with your boyfriend. —anobody |
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Beat It! |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 6:25 PM Oh man, so much to say, so tired. Perhaps tomorrow. —Beat It! |
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pookie |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 6:50 PM my experience has been quite different, but i think we are more the exception. i got married retardedly young and we've been married for almost 25 years, but we still can't keep our hands off of each other. we have only grown closer and more in love (puke, right?). i guess we just lucked out. —pookie |
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bguirk |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 8:50 PM Oh man, so much to say, so tired. Perhaps tomorrow. —Beat It! same here. except instead of tired I'm going drinking since Mrs. bguirk is out of town. I'd be going drinking if she was in town too, but she'd be coming along. watch for my tipsy reply later. —bguirk |
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whoisnumbaone |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 10:11 PM 'm no longer married, but I once was, so factor that in as you will. LOL... why do i picture Ano wearing an oversized whale tshirt to his wedding? Well Dx3, I think maybe you might be done with your relationship. Im not married or anythign but I will say that if you really were passionately in love then perhaps the thoguht of screwing another guy wouldnt even be anyhting remotely possible. Now, its diferent for a guy. Guys will screw anything wiht legs and a pussy, but for a girl the whole "connection" part of sex should override wanting to screw random guys. Ano has a point when he says that many times people stay in the relationship they are in because they have been in it so long. IM sure you still love your BF, but are you IN LOVE? you know the whole thing, "i love you, but im not IN love with you." If you feel in your heart/gut/vagina that its over, might as well break it off sooner than later. Imaging goin another yr or two and feeling like you "wasted" that time. I know SEVERAL girls that stuck in relationships becasue they couldnt get themselves to break up. All in all, I think it suonds like o might be nearing the end. maybe work on the relationship, or take a break? and that brings another point. Is there ever such a thing as "taking a break"? —whoisnumbaone |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Edited Friday, June 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM i've gone through the same thing twice, and i'm hoping i don't have to again. -plurry
Thanks- I hope you don't have to either. Sucks, but if it keeps repeating there must be a reason behind it.
Just seems like being close and good friends can be really fucking comfortable, but still kind of destroy the "otherness" about the person that makes things.. spark?
Don't really know if this is just normal stuff that happens to most people [the no sex after marriage jokes are cliché for a reason] or a sign of [dr fucking drew alert] intimacy issues. I think I'm capable of a pookie level relationship if I want to be, but it takes two. My feeling on this is that you're probably done with the relationship but you just don't want to admit that to yourself.
If you had more experience and were a few more relationships in, the same situation wouldn't necessarily be a killer, but at this point, I'm not optimistic.
You don't know how many I've had, so if I've had 1 or 100, I'd still need to be a few more in?
I'm still into him. If anything it's him that's changed. He admits this, says he doesn't know why, but that it has nothing to do with me. I just don't like the options I'm left with. The one major difference is that towards the end, she didn't want to kiss or hug or even hold hands.
Yep, that's a sign of some serious problems. I'd absolutely say don't get married or pregnant
I'm starting to think you listen to way too much Loveline. Pregnant? Did you read what this is about? Do I sound like some idiot 13 year old freshly raped by a jizzle ball bat? I'm not going to get fucking pregnant. Oh man, so much to say, so tired. Perhaps tomorrow. --BI!
You were one of the ones I hoped would chime in [edit -since there seems to be some confusion, chime in on the general issue, not if i'm into my bf or not]. I look forward to your response (if you feel up to it). —doingdoingdoing |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Edited Friday, June 13, 2008 at 10:41 PM All in all, I think it suonds like o might be nearing the end. maybe work on the relationship, or take a break? and that brings another point. Is there ever such a thing as "taking a break"?
—whoisnumbaone omg your post was so gross. think of my original post as more of a general question on attraction in long term relationships, ok.
—doingdoingdoing |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Friday, June 13, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 12:00 AM lol "jizzle ball bat"
I look forward to your response
I love you.
my experience has been quite different, but i think we are more the exception. i got married retardedly young and we've been married for almost 25 years, but we still can't keep our hands off of each other. we have only grown closer and more in love (puke, right?). i guess we just lucked out.
—pookie Sorry, pook, but I've started to miss doing that; it's been a while.
—Dusty TheHick |
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pookie |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 4:08 AM ^ i've missed it as well. welcome back. —pookie |
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chix0r |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 5:15 AM >>there's something to "hooking up" (hate that term) with someone you're just incredibly attracted to just because you're attracted to them that seems just as much a fundamental drive as having trust, honesty, and all that crap. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. Never experienced that in the slightest. My boyfriend and I have only been living together for a week, but we've been dating for 2 and a half years, and we still fuck 2-3 times a day. He used to talk about wanting to do threesomes, wanting to have a harem, all this crap, but he hasn't even brought it up in forever, and he even said months ago that when he sees a hot girl, he doesn't even want to fuck her anymore. Maybe fantasizes about it, but if I said "ok, do it," he wouldn't want to. That said, I still contend that we love each other, but we're not in love. He asked me yesterday if I feel like we've ever made love, or if we just fuck, and whether or not people who actually are in love ever just fuck. Cute. —chix0r |
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derekho |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 8:34 AM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 8:36 AM Doing: you could just have a three way. —derekho |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 9:03 AM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 9:18 AM no^ I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. Never experienced that in the slightest.
you've never seen anyone you think is attractive other than your bf? I don't follow what you're talking about either, but, fucking 2-3x times a day would get old quick to me no matter who it was with. i needs mah space. —doingdoingdoing |
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bguirk |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 11:54 AM wow--you guys are giving horrible advice. Did sex decline after marriage, or if you lived in sin first, during cohabitation? So my wife and I moved in together after dating for about two weeks. Did sex decline? For us I think it's always been feast or famine. We'll go a week w/o and then do a week where it's every day or at least several in a row. Times of high stress like moving, finals, new jobs ect sort of put us off sex for awhile and other times we'll get some good sex momentum going. A certain component of it is men sort of get interested in other stuff as they get older. From age 12 on we are very concerned with getting laid as it's literally difficult to put down the porn and stop beating off in private and trying to figure women out in public (and get in their pants). It's exhausting. I'm sort of glad to be able to not think about it every minute. Also it seems like the more the relationship evened out emotionally [ie less fighting, less breakup/makeups, more understanding of each other overall] the less action there was (which is not to say there isn't plenty of affection physically and otherwise - there is). This is probably healthy and it's definitely normal. There's a great This American Life where this married woman meets someone from her past and is super attracted to him and starts going out to dinner with him a bunch and whatever. She wants the guy and thinks about him all the time , but feels terrible about it. She tells her husband about it and he's says something like “Sweetie, I'm sorry I can't do that for you anymore.” It's probably impossible to maintain that newness thing and not approach companionship when you're with someone for a long time. That doesn't mean you can't fuck your friend, but it's a different feeling and a different drive than when you're in the dating phase and trading in for a new model every 3-9 months. One more question - does it ever seem like too much of a sacrifice to never have the excitement of following through on an attraction to someone new? My wife and I have been together since 2000 and it hasn't felt like it. I'm pretty happy being settled down. "hooking up" (hate that term) with someone you're just incredibly attracted to just because you're attracted to them that seems just as much a fundamental drive Somehow I managed to land in an office full of articulate, skinny and tall women with big boobs (and some w/o) who are actually willing to talk to me and of course there's part of me that would like to jump on top of all of them. I wish I could turn that off somewhere, but I can't. The good news is over the years you'll get a lot of practice ignoring that drive and it gets somewhat easier to do. I'm generally in disagreement with the people who are saying “sounds like you're done.” Having doubts about your relationship means you're a sentient being and trying to work through them by thinking/talking instead of trying on some other guy for size is awesome. You could always ask your guy for more sex or have a general discussion about it. It's good to check in on that stuff, my wife and I do it from time to time. Those talks usually end up with us in bed so good times. —bguirk |
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plurry |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 1:16 PM I'm generally in disagreement with the people who are saying “sounds like you're done.” i also have doubt the two of you are done, but if it were the case, sounds like you'll be able to have an amicable parting of the ways. it's nice to know if things go south, that it won't end on a sour note.
i hate when that happens. afterwards, you feel as if you've wasted a lot of time. essentially, it's over when one or both is/are plain bored with the/each other, or there is too much water under the bridge that's constantly threatening to wash it out.
every fight is another foot of water under your bridge especially when they're ugly fights. many times harsh things are said during the heat of the moment, and people try to forgive and forget or, at least say they have. but things tend to stick in your craw, and lots of arguments start over one thing, then end up in familiar territory which is the core of all issues you have with each other. gotta keep that core non-existent or as small as possible. questions: how old are you, how old is he?
how many years are you into the relationship?
do both of you have a fair amount of prior relationship experience?
is this the last person you want to have sex with?
does he feel the same?
—plurry |
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anobody |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 1:47 PM Just to be clear - I'm not necessarily saying that they're done - just that based on what I remember and am guessing about doing^3 (early 20s; first serious long term relationship) that there's significant danger of her cultivating a little nagging doubt that ends up growing into a huge thing and ultimately causing problems, even if after she had more experience she found that this would be a fine terminal relationship. For us I think it's always been feast or famine. We'll go a week w/o and then do a week where it's every day or at least several in a row You have an interesting concept of famine. i also have doubt the two of you are done, but if it were the case, sounds like you'll be able to have an amicable parting of the ways. it's nice to know if things go south, that it won't end on a sour note. I agree completely with that. One more question - does it ever seem like too much of a sacrifice to never have the excitement of following through on an attraction to someone new? I missed this before, but even though things didn't work out for me, absolutely not (I would have been happy to have spent the rest of my life with her had things worked out - even knowing that I could have done better). —anobody |
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ZT Spice |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 2:12 PM I feel like I have contribute something to this converstation, but my hair is greasy. —ZT Spice |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 2:28 PM damn bg, everything you wrote is spot on and makes a lot of sense. I knew there was a reason I was hoping you/bi might reply (and why jjgold has your back in all situations). i think you got that what i was talking about is a common phenomenon rather than just a flat-out sign of relationship doom or something. good insights, 'specially: It's probably impossible to maintain that newness thing and not approach companionship when you're with someone for a long time. That doesn't mean you can't fuck your friend, but it's a different feeling and a different drive than when you're in the dating phase and trading in for a new model every 3-9 months.
and Having doubts about your relationship means you're a sentient being
Agreed- a certain amount of doubt is a good sign that you aren't hopelessly caught up in romantic fantasy and still have a sense of yourself as an individual. So my wife and I moved in together after dating for about two weeks.
wow. I'd say you two struck it catloaf/pookie lucky there (even though there's obviously more to it than dumb luck) Might have more to add later but I'm on my way out.. Jesus Christ, a cat next door just caught a fucking crow! 'bout to be a turf war, the whole neighborhood is echoing with the sound of mad crow. —doingdoingdoing |
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bguirk |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Edited Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 9:30 PM but things tend to stick in your craw, and lots of arguments start over one thing, then end up in familiar territory so true, although this isn't how my wife and I operate it happened w/ others. I'm not necessarily saying that they're done - just that based on what I remember and am guessing about doing^3 I can't remember how old doing^3 is so I can only judge from her writing. This makes me feel terrible to say, but she comes off as older or rather wiser about this stuff than others in the forum who talk about their relationships. Infer what you will re: who I'm talking about. To me it just felt like what I went through somewhere between 27-28 when I took a long walk on the beach up in Vancouver in the winter with a dear dear friend and talked similar stuff out so maybe I'm reading too much of myself in there. The people who don't question things sincerely and will defend their relationship choices to the death are the ones whose futures I worry about. The friend who walked on the beach with me ended up in the loony bin largely because she refused to look at the same shit regarding her then boyfriend now husband. You have an interesting concept of famine. You missed a great opportunity for an oral joke with the feast side of the equation. —bguirk |
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anobody |
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Saturday, June 14, 2008 at 11:45 PM I'm still too bitter about that to joke about it. —anobody |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:28 AM Just to be clear - I'm not necessarily saying that they're done
I couldn't think of a nice enough way to say before that your conjectures were really off, but yeah, don't worry about it. Interesting info when it came to your marriage which is what the post was asking actually, but when you got into the psychic reading territory on me it went south quick. Sounded like Adam and Drew, so I'm sure there are people out there for whom it's valid. Just not me. (early 20s; first serious long term relationship)
Yeah, no on both counts. Mid-twenties and this is not my first ltr. —doingdoingdoing |
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anfernee |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:29 AM why are you suckafishes up this late? —anfernee |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:31 AM
Edited Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:33 AM East Coast 4 lyf. 6:30 am here, but I woke up a couple hours ago and can't get back to sleep. —doingdoingdoing |
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airking32 |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:33 AM i am noctural. i'm usually up till 4 or 5am, then i sleep till 3pm. i've got blackout shades in my room, and i love the latenight. hence the novelty timestamp on many of my posts. now, though, i'm off to bed. my big, comfortable bed... that i don't have to share with ANYONE because I'M NOT MARRIED! AHAHAHAHAHA SUCKAAAAAAAAS! —airking32 |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:36 AM Whatever, I've got my own bed too. No one fucks with my sleep.
It's creepy that now I know what airking32's bed looks like. —doingdoingdoing |
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pookie |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:36 AM
Edited Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 2:36 AM ^ lol @ airking's post —pookie |
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chix0r |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 5:38 AM >you've never seen anyone you think is attractive other than your bf? I see lots of attractive people, but I have absolutely no desire to fuck them or even touch or kiss them. —chix0r |
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pookie |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 5:42 AM ^ agreed. guys hit on me all the time, but it does not tempt me at all. for those who can't comprehend that, it's like this: would you be tempted to eat a mc nugget when you have a kobe steak waiting for you at home? —pookie |
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derekho |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 7:02 AM What about those who eat chicken and not steak? —derekho |
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anobody |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 7:20 AM I couldn't think of a nice enough way to say before that your conjectures were really off For future reference - no need to be nice. As long as you're civil and not just being mean, I'd prefer you (and people in general) to be direct. Yeah, no on both counts. Mid-twenties and this is not my first ltr. Well never mind then. Now I'm wondering who I have you confused with (not that it really maters, I guess).
—anobody |
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Yog-Laithoth |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM What about those who eat chicken and not steak? —derekho One might wonder what such a person was doing having a steak waiting at home, then. Right? —Yog-Laithoth |
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pookie |
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Sunday, June 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM ^ okay, yog. you actually made me snort-laugh. congratulations. —pookie |
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oh-for |
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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 at 3:40 PM Ummmm. back with the wife. things are great. the kids seriously get in the way of sex. time for THEM to move out. yeah, so, I know they are only 13.
crushing my groove. —oh-for |
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pookie |
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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 at 6:48 PM hi oh-for! so glad to hear things are going so well for you! i bet the kids are happy to have their parents back together. we miss not seeing you more often, but it's great that you are getting to spend so much time as a family. as soon as the kids get their driver's licenses, you won't see much of them and you'll have plenty of private time with the wifesk. —pookie |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Edited Wednesday, June 18, 2008 at 7:47 PM I see lots of attractive people, but I have absolutely no desire to fuck them or even touch or kiss them.
^ agreed... would you be tempted to eat a mc nugget when you have a kobe steak waiting for you at home?
Weird, maybe if there were only 1 kobe steak in the world, but that's just not the case - wtf is a kobe steak i don't like steak. For future reference - no need to be nice.
twas more i wanted to avoid the "if you disagree with this you're just in denial" line that a terse response might bring on Now I'm wondering who I have you confused with
no one, you probably just made it up —doingdoingdoing |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 at 10:16 PM He may have been thinking of Tiffany.
P.S: I'm really happy for you, oh-for.
—Dusty TheHick |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 9:07 AM
Edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 9:10 AM Well, I was away longer than I planned and in that time bguirk pretty much summed things up pretty well. Anyhow, here's my rambling, hopefully coherent, take: Did sex decline after marriage, or if you lived in sin first, during cohabitation? We've lived together since 2002. Sex has declined somewhat, but I attribute that more to external forces (work, stress, family, etc) as opposed to us not wanting to have sex with each other. Also there is a familiarity factor that sometimes may dampen things sexually, but not such a degree that I want to go find someone new. We seem to run in spurts too where we'll have a lot of sex over a few days and then go a week without. I have a higher drive than her, but I don't often feel sexually frustrated. And when I do, she usually picks up on it and takes care of the situation. I'm fine masturbating if I need to just clear out the pipes. Also, I should note that since getting married last year, our sexual activity has increased. my boyfriend and I have lived together for several years and we're committed and all that, but after about a year of cohab, physically we became more like... friends, for lack of a better term. I've never gotten to the point where I would classify us as "friends." Again, I think the familiarity factor of a long-term relationship is something that can have a profound effect and it can take some getting used to. Many people probably bail at this point in relationships because they figure it's just a trend that will continually get worse until you just don't desire the other person physically. There is a deepening to a relationship that can occur around this time though it may be harder to perceive at first. It's the whole "seven year itch" phenomenon where, if you make it past, suddenly things start heating up again (though I've only made it past this point once). I think the physical side of the relationship is crucial in that you both need to have the same drive in order to last - be it a high sex drive, low sex drive or no sex drive. Or, at the very least, you should be able to meet halfway.
It's easy to throw out some "Drewisms" (as many people already have) and proclaim your boyfriend done, but I think this a trickier area than some of the other behavioral diagnosis you can make armed with a little Loveline knowledge. One more question - does it ever seem like too much of a sacrifice to never have the excitement of following through on an attraction to someone new? I've felt this before in relationships, but I don't get this anymore. I honestly don't know if it has to do with maturing or who I'm with or both. I'm still a very flirtatious person and I do like the feeling of someone new being drawn to me (this is less sexual though in most cases than my need for attention, DAMN YOU DAD!), but the thought of actually going back to dating holds no appeal beyond that visceral and fleeting first encounter. Of course, there are women who arouse me - whether they are people I work with (though currently, that well is dry), girls I see on the street or celebrities - and sometimes that desire can be quite strong at times. But ultimately, to me the greater sacrifice would be walking away from her and everything we have together. I would simply miss her and no amount of sex with other people would fulfill that. I've done enough dating and sleeping around (and have enough good memories that are still quite strong) to know that, more often than not, it's less than what you make it out to be in your mind. But what me and my wife have is something I wouldn't want to try and find again. Stability is inherently boring, but that doesn't mean it's unfulfilling. Ultimately (or ideally) you have to sacrifice one for the other. Figuring out which is going to be more rewarding to you personally in the long run is the trick. If the thought of abandoning hook ups and first kisses seems terrible, maybe the settled down life isn't what you want (or what you want yet). I couldn't even stomach the thought of marriage until I was in my thirties. —Beat It! |
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bguirk |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 9:23 AM Also there is a familiarity factor that sometimes may dampen things sexually, but not such a degree that I want to go find someone new. this is my experience too. we were living in two cities this time last year and went about 6 weeks w/o seeing each other. when we got back together we went at it so much she had to put a stop to it for 8 hours. Stability is inherently boring, but that doesn't mean it's unfulfilling. Ultimately (or ideally) you have to sacrifice one for the other. And yet over the course of a marriage/ltr you find a lot of ways to rock the boat and make things interesting. It's just a longer time horizon and it's not new people that provide the stimulation but things like setting goals, vacations, supporting each other, houses, children. Those things are interesting too and putting your personal spin on them (or at least one different than what your own parents did) can alleviate the boredom. If we ever became one of those couples who just came home from work, watched TV, and waited for our demise I don't know what I'd do. BTW--congrats oh-for. —bguirk |
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chix0r |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 9:49 AM >>it's not new people that provide the stimulation but things like setting goals, vacations, supporting each other, houses, children. When one of my students found out I don't ever want kids, his response was, "But how will you and your boyfriend stay together if you don't have kids? You'll get bored! Kids are what make life interesting!" Sounds like something his parents tell him to make him feel better.. —chix0r |
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bguirk |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:06 AM We probably won’t be in contact when you’re hitting your 30’s chix0r, but my guess is you’ll change your tune on the subject. Every woman I’ve known since age 18 through now has been somewhere between ambivalent to openly hostile about having kids until they hit age 31 or so. Then the hormones surge and it’s like a kid wanting a puppy or me wanting an Xbox. Now 3 out of 4 of these women now have two year olds and the ones that don’t have them want them and admit to it. I’ve been playing defense for 3 years. It’s the only thing I’ve ever seriously fought with my wife about. —bguirk |
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chix0r |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM I still plan to get my tubes tied as soon as I can justify the expense, so if I ever do have kids, they probably won't be mine. —chix0r |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:12 AM chix0r, can you explain why are people who don't want to have kids are so militant about it? I understand (and heavily support) those who don't want them, but most that I have encountered go out of their way to impress upon the world that those who do want to have kids are mindless sheep or have some sort of evil agenda. I know there are obnoxious pro-kid people out there, but for the most part it's a natural (and kind of essential) part of life. Is it because you feel on the defensive that the concept of not wanting kids is largely looked at as defective somehow? —Beat It! |
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chix0r |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:28 AM For me, if I ever get "militant," it's probably from people constantly telling me (with no supporting evidence like bguirk had), "oh, you'll want kids someday. No trust me, you really will." It's patronizing. I think another part of the problem is that women wanting kids is often portrayed in a derogatory manner, so it's annoying for people to insist I'm going to turn out like that. I don't think I've ever said anything negative about people who do want kids, though. —chix0r |
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pookie |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:31 AM ^ according to numerous studies, married couples without kids are happier and have fewer arguments, more sex, more time to devote to each other, and more time to pursue personal interests. i don't remember what the divorce ratio is for couples with children vs. couples without, but here's what i recall is the order of who's happiest according to studies: 1. no kids
2. kids are grown and out of the house
3. children between 5 - 12 (this makes sense. the kids are in school and not yet hormonal, rebelliou teens)
4. children under 5
6. children are in their teens obviously, these are not hard and fast rules, but i've seen the same basic pattern in more than one study. married with no kids is always at the top of the list, even when compared to being single or even living together. also, statistically, if couples live together before they are married, they are more likely to divorce than if they had not lived together first. this seems like a paradox, because you would think, "hey, try on the shoe to see if it fits first and that will ensure that i'll be happy with my choice." instead, what it does is create a particular dynamic in coupledom that creates expectations that can change dramatically after marriage, often leading to disappointment. again, not a hard and fast rule. —pookie |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:35 AM I don't think I've ever said anything negative about people who do want kids, though. — chix0r Well, maybe you didn't intend it that way, but the "something his parents tell him to make him feel better" comes off as more than a little derisive. part of the problem is that women wanting kids is often portrayed in a derogatory manner I don't think that women simply wanting kids is portrayed negatively, it's the extreme "it's my only purpose in life and I can not be complete without a child" attitude that gets mocked. it's probably from people constantly telling me (with no supporting evidence like bguirk had), "oh, you'll want kids someday. No trust me, you really will." It's patronizing. That's kinda what I figured. —Beat It! |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM married couples without kids are happier and have fewer arguments, more sex, more time to devote to each other, and more time to pursue personal interests. To me this fall sunder the same "no shit" header as the study where they found if you jump in the water you get wet. —Beat It! |
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pookie |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:43 AM i've seen a militant attitude on both sides. there are some people with children who feel that those who do not want the chillens are just being selfish. i think being accused of being selfish can make a person defensive and inclined to justify their stance. howzabout it's merely a matter of lifestyle preference for most - some wish to have a life of raising children and some don't. —pookie |
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pookie |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM you'd be surprised, beat. some people (like chix's student) insist that their is something wrong with your marriage if you don't have kids and that having kids is the only way to have a happy life and marriage. —pookie |
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chix0r |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM >>but the "something his parents tell him to make him feel better" comes off as more than a little derisive. Well, pookie did just say that parents in his parents' situation - with teenagers - are the least happy (#6 out of 5 options, even), so it only follows that he causes them all kinds of problems. He was a good kid though, so I bet he feels bad about it, and they go, "it's okay, kids are what make life interesting!" It's such an absurd idea to me though, the statement that you can't stay in a relationship unless children are involved, that I figure that's got to be the only reason a kid would say that. —chix0r |
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whoisnumbaone |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 11:15 AM although I am not an expert on this subject, I will say that the whole ide of marriage, kids, and a job feels really WRONG to me. I am very selfish and I like my life to be MINE. I just feel that as soon as you have kids and a family that as a man, my life is no longer my life, and my decisions are no longer mine alone. I would HAVE to go to work, (maybe a crappy job maybe not) and be part of the machine or "american dream." Dont get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE kids but I just dotn feel that I want my own. Id rather be cool uncle miguel. but who knows? maybe some chick will come along and change all of that? or so ive been told... for now I think there is too much I wanna do. im nowhere near ready, even to have a girlfriend! the mere thought of commitment is like weird and gross. I remember the last girl I was kinda serious with. I look back and think to myslef how retarded I was for letting myself get so "drunk in love/passion/lust" or whatevr the fuck u wanna call it. just remembering what I felt that one time is kinda gross to me. I cant imagine feeling that intensity again. It just doesnt seem natural to me. I really just want to get laid, and the problem is that most girls my age (24/25) are looking for long-term relationships. Also, im really self-conscience and I REFUSE to ask a girl out unless I have money to throw around on dates. For example, yesterday my mom came home from school and said that one of her classmates in the teaching credential program wants to meet me. First of all, I HATE when my mom tries to set me up, and second I told my mom that I didnt really want to talk to her becasue I have "nothing to offer." My mom (just acting likea mom) said "what do you mean?" I replied that I have no job, and can barely feed myself and that there is no way in hell I can take this girl out even if I wanted to. She said of course "thats not what its about." So I told her "Ok, Ill call her and ask her if she wants to take ME out to dinner. oh thats sexy." call it macho, call it pride, whatever. I see it more as return on investment. VALUE = BENEFITS/COSTS ^ it just seems that the costs almost ALWAYS outweigh the benefits —whoisnumbaone |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 11:33 AM you'd be surprised, beat. some people (like chix's student) insist that their is something wrong with your marriage if you don't have kids and that having kids is the only way to have a happy life and marriage. — pookie Oh no, no surprise here, I know people like that. But most people I know who have kids or want kids (which is to say, most people) aren't like that whereas most people who absolutely do not want to have kids (which are few) are more of the (understandably) defensive, militant type. I will say that the whole ide of marriage, kids, and a job feels really WRONG to me. - whois I support this 100%. The concept of you having kids feels really wrong to me too.
Better safe than sorry. —Beat It! |
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whoisnumbaone |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 11:46 AM ^ LOL, as it should. I once told airking "I dont trust any woman that is dumb enough to have sex with me. she MUST be flawed!" —whoisnumbaone |
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mandee |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 12:14 PM back with the wife. i did not see that coming. i want details. fuck. he's never going to come back and tell us. —mandee |
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Beat It! |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 12:21 PM I don't remember why they weren't together in the first place? Did he ever say specifically? —Beat It! |
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chix0r |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 12:27 PM >>I just feel that as soon as you have kids and a family that as a man, my life is no longer my life I love that ProActiv commercial. "I just put it on at night, and when you wake up, you don't have acne!" Great guy, you keep doing the work, and I'll keep reaping the benefits. —chix0r |
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pookie |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 12:44 PM I'M A MORON! there = their AND 1,2,3,4,6 p.s. whois, i really respect that you you take the obligations that come with having a marriage and kids so seriously. —pookie |
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mandee |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 12:47 PM i thought his wife was crazy or something. i remember him telling me in the hub everyone one time, but it's been so long ago. i keep getting his and anobody's ex-wives confused. —mandee |
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airking32 |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 1:16 PM p.s. whois, i really respect that you you take the obligations that come with having a marriage and kids so seriously for a mexican. —airking32 |
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pookie |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 1:39 PM lol @ for a mexican actually, in all the mexican families that i have known (about 9), the father was very devoted to his wife and kids. there was only one that i knew that ran out on the family. —pookie |
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doingdoingdoing |
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Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM I know there are obnoxious pro-kid people out there, but for the most part it's a natural (and kind of essential) part of life.
I guess the idea doesn't give me warm fuzzies because I think the nuclear family structure is... deeply flawed at best. If you've ever been on the outside of a functional family you see how exclusive and selfish it really is - the concept of family extending to just taking care of "one's own". It's easy to throw out some "Drewisms" (as many people already have) and proclaim your boyfriend done
He doesn't seem done at all, he's fine with how things are. If anything I'm the one getting bored. but the thought of actually going back to dating holds no appeal beyond that visceral and fleeting first encounter.
me either, but i like that part Stability is inherently boring, but that doesn't mean it's unfulfilling.
agreed. i'm comfortable that there's no relationship drama (it depresses me to see a lot of females still caught up in that well into their 30's). being comfortable in a relationship is enough of an accomplishment for me not to jump ship. this is less sexual though in most cases than my need for attention, DAMN YOU DAD!
lulz, I hear you. good responses, thanks. "Kids are what make life interesting!"
Probably "wait until Johnny finishes high school then GTFO of the relationship" types. —doingdoingdoing |
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anobody |
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Saturday, June 21, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Edited Saturday, June 21, 2008 at 9:18 AM He doesn't seem done at all, he's fine with how things are. If anything I'm the one getting bored. It does take two people to maintain a relationship. I certainly wasn't done when we got divorced. I'm not saying that's the case here, and my thinking you were done was predicated somewhat on thinking you were closer to 22 and in your first real long term relationship. Even so, the kernel of what I was saying stands - if you're bored, and you choose to dwell on that and keep thinking that there's something better out there, then you're effectively done. It'll just build up and eventually you'll end up miserable or you'll go out to try to find that something better. On the other hand, as long as you realize (or, at least, accept whether it's right or wrong) that any long term relationship you could have would end up roughly where you are, then I think you have a chance. also, statistically, if couples live together before they are married, they are more likely to divorce than if they had not lived together first. this seems like a paradox, because you would think, "hey, try on the shoe to see if it fits first and that will ensure that i'll be happy with my choice." instead, what it does is create a particular dynamic in coupledom that creates expectations that can change dramatically after marriage, often leading to disappointment. again, not a hard and fast rule. Just to throw in my own anecdotal experience - we lived together for about 2 years before getting married. Actually getting married didn't really change anything substantially (other than causing us to take on more debt and forcing us to pay a few hundred bucks and file papers just to break up). you'd be surprised, beat. some people (like chix's student) insist that their is something wrong with your marriage if you don't have kids and that having kids is the only way to have a happy life and marriage. Two things I want to say about that. First off - a lot of women actually do seem to get interested in kids at some point (even if other things keep them from having them). It seems reasonable that this would be a natural biological drive. Second (and more germane) - when my sister was in grade school, she wrote a short story for one of her classes. I don't know the details of it, but it was something along the lines of "what I'm going to do when I grow up". There was something so disturbing and wrong in her essay that her teacher actually called our mom in for a parent-teacher's conference. Evidently, it was that she (mind you, a 5'th grader at the time) actually said that she didn't want to have kids or get married when she grew up. —anobody |
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