there's such a huge difference between vegans and raw foodists, at least vegans can make vegan lasagna or whatever. the raw food people live on berries and nuts.
important question: as a raw foodist, can you get a much cheaper apartment that doesn't have oven hookups?
"so u dont believe in eating meat becasue you kill animals right? Well have you thought of the fact that when you consume vegetables, your actually eating them ALIVE? I htink that is a more painfull death."
Not so much stupid as horribly ill-informed (with the exception of vegans who are vegans because of the culture they were born into rather than some sort of misguided hippydom and eating disorder).
there's such a huge difference between vegans and raw foodists, at least vegans can make vegan lasagna or whatever. the raw food people live on berries and nuts.
Similarly there's a huge difference between vegetarians and vegans.... but just being a vegan more than adequately limits your diet. If you don't believe that, I'd suggest you try some of that vegan lasagna sometime. While you're at it, grab some tasty rice cream, and vegan cake (for extra credit, make it an uncooked "raw" cake - see they can eat real stuff too!).
Go to a random restaurant and try to find some food that a vegan can eat. They'll usually have at least a couple of things that a vegetarian could have, but unless you're at something like an Indian or Ethiopian place, you're gonna have a hell of a time.
^ thats kinda my whole point. Those people cannot fully participate in human CULTURE. And since culture is what sets us apart from the animal kingdom, I say that these people are less human thna us..... or at the very least, really STUPID.
"so u dont believe in eating meat becasue you kill animals right? Well have you thought of the fact that when you consume vegetables, your actually eating them ALIVE? I htink that is a more painfull death."
^ thats kinda my whole point. Those people cannot fully participate in human CULTURE. And since culture is what sets us apart from the animal kingdom, I say that these people are less human thna us..... or at the very least, really STUPID.
Eh... I could pick apart the trivial minutia, but I can't really argue with the substance of your argument.
Ethiopian food is really good.
Very much so.
Anyone in Phoenix - check out The Blue Nile - excellent food.
In the interest of equal time for carnivores - also check out your local Brasilian steakhouse (in particular, Fogo e Brasa if you're in Phoenix).
Sunday, April 13, 2008 at 7:50 PM Edited Sunday, April 13, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Eh... I could pick apart the trivial minutia, but I can't really argue with the substance of your argument.
I can. People opt out of human culture all the time. Be it because they don't like singing or dancing or religion (ahem ano), the written word, or they're against having kids you pick and chose your poison. I have a number of friends who are ready to head out and become highly paid natural resources consultants (goddamn them) and they all struggle with some level of vegetarianism/veganism. I don't join in with them because I fucking love bacon, but I do admire the choice. Vegans tend to form communities to prepare and eat together and if you live in certain enlightened cities I suppose you can eek out some sort of restaurant life. Given the love of fast food expressed in other threads around here you guys really shouldn't be tossing stones at the vegetarians since you guys would eat processed fried shit if there was enough salt/grease/heinz dumped on it.
Given the love of fast food expressed in other threads around here you guys really shouldn't be tossing stones at the vegetarians since you guys seem to would eat fried shit if there was enough salt/grease/heinz dumped on it
To be fair though - I believe that liking salty fatty foods is innate (whereas eating nothing but nuts and greens is contrary to our nature).
I don't join in with them because I fucking love bacon, but I do admire the choice
I'll give you the vegetarians (I'll even go so far as to say that I also admire the choice though I wouldn't want to do it myself), but vegan/raw foodism really is* an eating disorder.
*Minor caveat making an exception for the vegans who are vegan by culture.
To be fair though - I believe that liking salty fatty foods is innate (whereas eating nothing but nuts and greens is contrary to our nature).
If you want to go at it that way, then yes salty and fatty stuff is in our nature, but not at the level things are salted/cooked in fat (like steaks cooked in butter) at restaurants. I'm not saying it's not yummy, but a Snickers is damn tasty too and it's more sugared up than anything our nature intended. If we went strictly by nature we'd only eat as much sugar as that in a berry or a pineapple.
(whereas eating nothing but nuts and greens is contrary to our nature).
it's also a great way to lose some weight though. I snack on a lot of nuts and pair them with something from the fruit and vegetable kingdom when I'm trying to get my body fat % down. those days are coming soon again.
but vegan/raw foodism really is* an eating disorder.
I'm almost with you on the raw foodism, but if you can maintain a healthy weight and not go anemic I can't really label you as a disordered eater. I eat with vegans at times and while some of their food is god-awful (and I tell them so) some of their baked goods are really great.
I grew up around lots of health food and yes, the vegan diet is very restricted, but I see no reason not to respect the decision to avoid animal products entirely (especially considering what they're dosed up with). I had food allergies growing up and was basically vegan just because of that. It's not a lifestyle I'd choose again, but it's not like it's unhealthy. Quite the opposite.
Raw foodism is probably good for you too, but it's also a way of cutting yourself off from society. I guess you could make that case for vegans too, but I really don't think that's always a motivator.
I see no reason not to respect the decision to avoid animal products entirely
I actually want to agree with you there... but when you actually take a close look at how many things that you wouldn't expect to contain animal products, it turns out that actually avoiding all animal products entirely is an enormous chore.
In principal I like the idea, but in practice, it just requires so much effort and is so restrictive as to seem absurd.
it's not like it's unhealthy. Quite the opposite
Now there's a claim that needs a lot of evidence to support it.
I agree that it's possible to eat vegan (or even raw) and still get adequate nutrition... it's just that it's so difficult to do so and requires so much expertise that most people don't do it.
Actually that brings up something interesting - all of the vegans who I know (a relatively limited set, I admit) have very sensitive stomaches and they have horrible reactions to the slightest amount of spice.
thats really weird. ive never met a vegan who doesn't use tons of spices. hell, i prefer the cooking of my vegan friends to that of everyone else ive met who cooks, save for my mom.
well, when you're forced to cook for yourself, you do get creative.
My mom once requested "vegetarian" meal on a plane ride ahead of time because she figured it'd be healthier. It was a burrito filled with iceberg lettuce and carrots. Nothing else. I am not making this up.
Monday, April 14, 2008 at 2:30 AM Edited Monday, April 14, 2008 at 2:31 AM
but I can't really argue with the substance of your argument. Thanks... I think it makes sense.
One wierd thing Ive noticed about vegetarians is that some are thinner than they were before the choice to become vegetarians, and some actually GAINED weight from becoming a vegetarian. weird?
If you live in a time when resources are scarce (like... uh... most of our history until very very recently), salt is a rare and essential nutrient and sweet and fatty foods give a lot more bang for the buck (and, again, until very recently, just getting enough calories was very difficult).
Having sweet, salty and fatty foods in abundance and easy access to more calories than we need is a very new development.
Sweets are fruit and vegetables for poor people. Beautiful produce tastes better than anything short of a dessert prepared by a world class chef, and if you're eating food like that then the same magic can be worked with real ingredients. It's really the difference between having a recording of classical music and going to see the orchestra whenever you want.
The idea that junk food is delicious (bguirk, 000, and a billion other people) only comes from never having eaten good food before. I mean, you probably think you've eaten real food but if you like junk food, then you really haven't. It's not delicious; junk food is variously sickly sweet, stale, chewy like plastic, salted beyond redemption; it feels so bad in the stomach too.
A lot of plants want you to eat them but we still treat them worse than animals. It's absurd within the reflexively absurd universe of tantric masturbation known as philosohy, where ideas like vegetarianism and buddhism thrive.
There is nothing to be respected, it is placebo. Animal activism from rich people is a joke. Let's not rest until every dog and cat in the USA is living better than humans in the rest of the world. All animals rights people are full of shit. They don't want to face up to the truths of mortality. They want to absolve the survivor guilt, pretend that their lives don't have an impact on earth. Ironically (used correctly oh my fucking god) they also want to be seen to be making a difference.
So, fuck everyone please? Also, if you don't eat meat you're malnourished. If you don't believe me, look at what happens when people living in poor farming villages for generations move to a country like fucking Australia and feed their children meat. Also, Sam Neill has a hot cock. Also, if you never eat fish throughout childhood you will be emotionally disabled until your 40th birthday. Witness the insanity of the landlocked communities of earth, and how they turn to incest and religion in the absence of fish flesh.
"Beautiful produce tastes better than anything short of a dessert prepared by a world class chef" - MajandraFan
This is so true. Most of what you buy in a grocery store is going to be iffy, but fresh off a tree is awesome. When I was in Hawaii, the fruit there was like nothing I had ever eaten before. We ate fruit until our lips swelled up. If fruit could always be that good, I could easily be a vegetarian (with the exception of a good steak from time to time).
When I was in Hawaii, the fruit there was like nothing I had ever eaten before. We ate fruit until our lips swelled up. If fruit could always be that good, I could easily be a vegetarian (with the exception of a good steak from time to time).
We went to Puerto Rico a few years ago and stayed in a surfers hotel owned by some bitter racists. They did provide a nice spread of tropical fruits and bakery items every morning that to this day make me want to go back, for breakfast only though.
they were just typical white people on an island of brown. Puerto Ricans are all lazy was the main one. It was a husband and wife team--one was a surfer and the other climbed the big 7 peaks. One of them was bound to be unhappy with their location.
