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DogBite |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 1:37 AM I can't believe that I get to hear about this total non-issue all the way over here. Just because he screamed the word NIGGER at black people during a comedy show does not make him a racist. I believe the comedy stage is "off-limits" from such accusations because racist things are said in the name of comedy all the time. In fact, racist comments = comedy for many comics including Katt Williams, and Artie Lange. Why should a different standard be applied to Michael Richards because he played a character on a hit TV show? —DogBite |
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anobody |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 2:28 AM Just because he screamed the word NIGGER at black people during a comedy show does not make him a racist. Shitlick? Is that you? Seriously though - I really don't think he's a racist. Nobody knows for sure but him, but I just don't buy it. When this came up the first came up - and I heard the audio on Adam's show, I had a knee-jerk reaction, immediately labeling him a racist. Then I watched the video. To me, he looked fairly cool, calm and collected on stage. I really got the impression that he was just rambling off on something, doing an improv bit, trying to shoot down the hecklers, and pushing the envelope for shock value. I don't like his handling of the situation. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he just apologized and said just that - instead of the excuse (that I think was complete BS) that he was in a rage and actually "had it inside him". If I had to guess, he consulted a lawyer before Letterman and the lawyer told him to work the anger angle to lay the ground work for some kind of watered down temporary insanity defense. If it was from the heart, then he must be a racist. Every comedian I've heard so far seems to support my hypothesis. Paul Rodriguez, DAG, and Harland Williams all said that he didn't do traditional jokes and focussed on off-the cuff bits, physical comedy, and just kinda acting crazy to get laughs. In my mind, it's totally plausible that his feelings were hurt, he was flustered by heckling, didn't have much experience with diffusing it, and just used the technique he knew best along with some outrageous stuff based on the most obvious characteristic he could see of the hecklers. On top of that - if we assume for a moment that he actually was racist and believed the stuff he said, he wouldn't just be racist - he'd be novelty racist - we're talking at the KKK level. Given that, it seems incredible that he could manage 8 years of Seinfeld and 8 years since without ever giving the slightest hint of his true feelings. And the reason I don't believe he could have done that without us knowing is that it would have been (as it was now) a major story - "Kramer made racist comments!". Hell - even if he did and it didn't get much press, somebody'd find a story or a witness would come forward. When I said that before, Mandee brought up Mel Gibson. The difference (as I said then) is that we actually had a clue about him (many, in fact; crazy religious Holocaust denying father; hugely popular anti-semetic movie; etc.). With Mel the pieces just fit together. With Richards - not so much. Weighing the evidence, I'm completely unconvinced that he's any more racist than the average Joe off the street (if he's even that much). At worst, he's just a little crazy (and even there, I'd bet that's more of a character that he's honed over time than a reflection of Richards).
—anobody |
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striker |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 2:50 AM WAY to strike while the iron's hot dogbite The REAL question, is has anyone posted video on the net of Richards making it 100X worse on Letterman? Richards acted as awkward as Acerockollaisace when Chris Hansen stepped out from behind the curtain. —striker |
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DogBite |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 7:44 AM Weighing the evidence, I'm completely unconvinced that he's any more racist than the average Joe off the street (if he's even that much). Wow, something we agree on. I have heard other comedians from various backgrounds say worse things on the telly without so much of a peep from the media. —DogBite |
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Jason |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 8:46 AM Well, a white man calling someone a nigger doesn't make him a racist...but he is acting like one. Just like I went around all day on all fours barking and sniffing other people's butts doesn't make me a dog...but I'm acting like one. I don't think people really care how Michael Richards feels in his heart of hearts. It's what he said; he let racist actions speak for his inner recesses. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So people aren't mad at him for being a racist -- just like people don't dislike gays for being gay -- people are mad at him for acting like a racist, just like people dislike gays for acting gay. —Jason |
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mandeemoo22 |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 9:57 AM Wow DB, you're so topical. I'm so glad you made another thread about this. —mandeemoo22 |
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DogBite |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 10:05 AM Only 'cuz I'm feeling ya. By the way, are you feeling better? I was worried about you for a bit. —DogBite |
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bguirk |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 10:20 AM Racist or not I thought it was super funny that Mel Gibson "reached out" to Richards in his time of need. How did that conversation go? "From one racist to another, you forgot to mention the jews. This is all their fault you know" —bguirk |
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anobody |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 11:18 AM
Edited Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 11:20 AM it was super funny that Mel Gibson "reached out" to Richards in his time of need Absolutely. Wow, something we agree on. I'm sure there are more than a few things (and I'm just as certain that if we picked apart the details, there'd be things we disagree about on this topic). he is acting like one Yes indeedy-dee. Most racists like to get up on stage, go off on a racist tirade one time, and end things there. Words are not deeds. let racist actions speak for his inner recesses Gimme a break. What actions? Did he not hire somebody because they were black? Did he physically abuse them? Does he have a history of saying racist things and verbally abusing people because of their race? From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks From the abundance of the ass, the mouth speaks. Do you really think everything someone says or does on stage reflects how they feel in real life? You know, if you watch Hamlet, the guy playing the lead probably didn't actually see the ghost of his father. The woman playing Ophelia, didn't actually go insane and drown. There's this thing called acting. People say and do things on stage that are outside of the norm for them. people aren't mad at him for being a racist... people are mad at him for acting like a racist I would argue that people are mad at him because they're thinking too concretely and aren't taking a moment to actually consider the context or the guy's history. Of course, I don't know what's in the man's mind. Maybe he is a horrible racist (although I really don't think so). Seriously consider for a moment what I said before though - if he actually is as racist as he appeared on stage, how could he possibly have held that back for 57 years? And think about this - today, lots of people will do anything to get on TV. Do you have any idea how many people you meet in 57 years - even if you're not trying? If he was so racist, where's the kid from school who didn't really know him but witnessed or even heard third hand about something he did that was racist? Where's the guy in the bar who heard him go off on a previous 'nigger' rant, or otherwise berate or attack someone because they were black? Where's the black intern who he was kinda mean to? I haven't been paying much attention, but I haven't seen anyone come forward like that - not even somebody who just made something up to get on TV and radio shows. Think about how incredible that is.
—anobody |
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DogBite |
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Saturday, December 2, 2006 at 3:42 PM mandeemoo - yess but tehere are tohse of us who lurk heeere andd theen postt otherer infofo on tlcc!!! wahtat the fuck am i tlatking about sheesh. Hey now! —DogBite |
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Jason |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:47 AM Anobody: Do you even have an argument? Or just an empty rebuttal? I don't care if he "hid" it or not. A white guy calling a group of Blacks niggers and talking at them about lynchings sounds racist. In fifty-seven years, I'm sure he knew that. He might have been drunk or high, but still. Even if he's not a racist, even if he doesn't truly hate Black people, in that moment he acted like he did. So what now? I'm not his judge and jury, but spare me the nihilistic line of questioning. Not only do you know if he's a racist or not (even though he seems more like a racist than not...he did call a group of Black people niggers; he's not some random comedian the media has decided to pick on), you honestly don't care. I don't blame you because you most likely have no idea what it's like. By the way, didn't Adam tell Gloria Allred that he's seen Michael's act several times and he has used that word almost every time he's seen him? —Jason |
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AceRockollaisAce |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 7:50 AM Richards acted as awkward as Acerockollaisace when Chris Hansen stepped out from behind the curtain.
—striker shitlick way to go, put a reference in that only somebody living in the USA would know about - Me I'm a brit and know not of what you speak.
—AceRockollaisAce |
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striker |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 2:00 PM How do you know that "only" an american would know unless you know what I'm referring to, and thus you're lying. Did you beg chris to let you go like most of em do? What did they find in your vehicle? Did you claim you ALWAYS carry that stuff with you? What's funny are the guys who think chris is her dad. —striker |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 5:32 PM Do you even have an argument? Or just an empty rebuttal? That was more of an argument than a rebuttal, but whatever. In fifty-seven years, I'm sure he knew that. So your claim is that he managed to hold in all that anger and hate for 57 years, and then one day he just snapped? Of course he knew it sounds racist. My argument (which you claim I don't have) is that he was just going for maximum impact. He wanted to say / do something that would strike a nerve. Something edgy. Something provocative. I even almost think he was trying to make a statement about racism and that it hasn't been abolished from our society. He might have been drunk or high, but still Racist or not, I'm quite confident that he was stone sober. I'm not his judge and jury, but spare me the nihilistic line of questioning. WTF? Where's that coming from? even if he doesn't truly hate Black people, in that moment he acted like he did Precisely. acted on stage, no less. Have you ever seen Do the Right Thing? More than one white guy in that movie used the same word with the same tone. Do you believe that they are all horrible racists as well? Not only do you know if he's a racist or not (even though he seems more like a racist than not...he did call a group of Black people niggers; he's not some random comedian the media has decided to pick on), you honestly don't care. I don't blame you because you most likely have no idea what it's like. Where to begin? First, I most certainly don't know if he's a racist or not - and neither do you (you even said as much - "I'm not his judge and jury"). You suspect it based on your biases, and (I'd say mostly) your gut reaction to his words. As I said, my first reaction to hearing about it and hearing the audio was to jump to the same conclusion you did. Then I took a moment, watched the video and thought about it. Again (as I said) it just doesn't fit. I love that you presume to know that "I honestly don't care if he's a racist". Shouldn't come as a surprise that you'd think you know my thoughts since you're as convinced that you know Kramer's. I'd certainly care if he was racist (not that my caring or not makes a damn bit of difference). The problem here is that you're so convinced that you understand his motivation that you can't even admit the possibility that he might not be racist. Please consider this - he didn't just act racist, he acted like the most bigoted, white spumiest clan member in Alabama. He acted like Clayton Bigsby for fuck's sake. Except that he's not from 'bama. He's from LA - not exactly a racist stronghold (unless you believe that Eddie Murphy's whiteface SNL skit was accurate). One premise of comedy is taking things to extremes. As Carlin would say - you can joke about anything, it's all about the exaggeration. So (to repeat myself) there are two possibilities here. (a) he is not just racist, but novelty racist - KKK racist AND he was able to hide the truth through his 57 years. (b) he was doing a bit - exaggerating to extremes for (in his mind at the time) comedic and dramatic effect. Of course.... By the way, didn't Adam tell Gloria Allred that he's seen Michael's act several times and he has used that word almost every time he's seen him? Yes I did hear him say that. You do realize he was BSing her there (on both accounts), don't you? shitlick way to go, put a reference in that only somebody living in the USA would know about - Me I'm a brit and know not of what you speak. I'm a USian and I'd have no idea what he's talking about were it not for Adam's show. —anobody |
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striker |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 5:45 PM Ha ha, you followed adam to morning radio. What does adam say about it? —striker |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:33 PM
Edited Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:33 PM ATTENTION HYPERSENSITIVE TYPES!!: If you insist upon harboring a huge red button on yourself (with arrows POINTING to it), e.g: "You're not allowed to say this word in front of me," and then decide to stir shit, e.g: showing up late to a show, and, upon your arrival, interfering with the performer, who is trying to do his job, you DO NOT have the right to get all up in arms, and indignant (let alone trying to actually PROFIT from it), when said performer retaliates by pushing your big red button. If you want to be shown the respect of not having your button pushed, show others some respect, sit down, shut up, and watch the show, like everyone ELSE there. —Dusty TheHick |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:35 PM Jesus Dusty. I didn't realize you were such a racist. I'm sorry but this means we can't hang any more. ;___;
—anobody |
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striker |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:37 PM
Edited Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:38 PM <<"If you insist upon harboring a huge red button on yourself..." Here's the button for Smaller Hands Brain: 
—striker |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:38 PM
Edited Monday, December 4, 2006 at 6:39 PM BONUS! Wha... wha... what? You act like I've never known your sweet embrace. It's almost like I don't even know yo, man. —anobody |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 7:16 PM Yeah but you know she means it as a sign of affection. —anobody |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 7:44 PM It's the Bitch's Britches, isn't it? —anobody |
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mandeemoo22 |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 7:46 PM No, it's just the weird relationship that you have with your dog who has a funny name. —mandeemoo22 |
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anobody |
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Monday, December 4, 2006 at 7:50 PM There's absolutely nothing weird about reenacting a classic Loveline call every night under the moonlight. —anobody |
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