OK I am going to post about the ACS. If you don't like that, then don't read any further. Regarding Adam's Friday rant, where people are thinking he is God and wanting him to run for President for saying stuff he said on Loveline for years, I have to admit I am as about as liberal as they come, yet I agree with 95% of what he says about this and have for a long time. He really makes a lot of sense and even though I think he is almost always wrong about the ACLU, I could see myself backing him on this stuff, even though I never would have before listening to Adam, like sterilizing these women, eventually, and making it a lot harder to have kids for people who abuse the privilege because, as he says, it is really screwing this country up. But when he goes off on the part about all the tax dollars it costs (which it does), not only does he fail to mention that even the total amount spent on welfare, etc. in a year in this country does not hold a candle compared to what is spent on defense, even before the current "war." In recent years, even under Clinton, defense made up half of the total budget, and, I don't have current stats, but surely, since Bush started this war, it has to be even higher. Yet not only does Adam never point this out, he is in favor of the war, even though it makes gas prices higher--he doesn't care, he wants it ten bucks a gallon anyway, and kills thousands, including innocent civilians, as well as making it more dangerous for people throughout the world by creating many new terrorists. I have always loved Adam for his stance on religion, and for the little things that are still important, the red turn arrows, his rants about "Rape-Bank," and other traffic matters, about the retarded traffic reports, and dozens of other things, but gee I wish he could wise up about some of the really important things. I always thought of him as being just a regular guy and not out of touch, but since he got on this show I see he is not such a normal guy anymore. Like when he says he doesn't care about the government listening in on phone conversations because the government doesn't care about who you are talking to, that they only want to take 40 or 50% of what you make. He comes off as really arrogant and stupid when he says that because most people, don't make anywhere near enough to have to pay this much. I think I pay around 22%. I still really like Adam, but I fear I am going to have to take him off my list of "heroes" on MySpace.
I read it. I agree with SOME of your points. Adam, is one my biggest heroes for alot of reasons, but, there is actually a couple of instances that I can think of where he seems out of touch, and a blowhard.
The thing about Junior College, community college. Alot of community colleges dont get nearly as much respect as they should. Some community colleges are actually incredibly helpful and suprisingly well staffed and do alot of good.
It seems that since Adam had a couple of bad memories and associations with the junior college institutions he now blowshard about it, as if the one or two junior colleges that he had some knowledge about back in the 70's are in anyway an example of what community colleges are like today.
Student culture, in my opinion, is one of the largest factors determining how much you'll learn at any given school. How hard and how serious the people around you are working, whether you like to believe it or not, influcences how hard you'll study and how serious you'll take your classes.
Junior colleges rarely have very serious students, though there are exceptions.
I've heard Adam mention that we spend too much on defense before, and that the government should provide more resources for people who have been abused, or are addicts, etc. Welfare, though I think it's good, doesn't include any rehabilitation services. Which, like our prison system, makes it almost a complete waste. We really do need to look at the psychological roots of the problems and correct them.
It's completely selfish that people have children when they can't support them, emotionally or finanically, and ultimately ruin their lives. It's criminal to allow it to happen.
It seems as if everyone wants to complain about defense spending... except when the defense that allowed them to become complacent doesn't seem to keep them safe any longer [9/11]. The real issue is Return on Investment. Defense spending's best ROI is the avg citizen never having to worry about their safety in their own country. Welfare and disability are inherently without ROI for the long term. Sure some people need help at some point in their lives, but it's long term 'abuse' of gov welfare, that is using it as their 'means of employment', that he (and I) dislike. In a more hardline view, no defense spending might mean the US would be a radioactive wasteland since the 1950's from Soviet attack. No long term welfare, abuse, etc might means a much more balanced and effective society today.
zt, don't you know anything? Kids are good and we should support people when they decide to have them. All life is sacred. All. Except if you kill someone, then you should die too. Except if you find God, then you should be spared. Except if you find the wrong God, then you should die.
I skimmed the original post, yeah most people don't make millions so they don't have half of each paycheck taken for taxes, but the thrust of his rant, I felt, was to address societal ills at large, not just a misuse of federal money on social welfare cases. His rant I think was geared to letting people know that unwanted children are the queen bee of most antisocial behavior (antisocial as in crimal behavior, continued patterns of abuse, chronic depression, lack of career ambition, leaving the lid off of peanut butter jars, etc).
Thank God we have hardworking comedians keeping this country full steam ahead *signum crucis* in spite of all these lazy people that don't want to earn an honest buck *wagging finger of shame*.
Thank God we have hardworking comedians keeping this country full steam ahead *signum crucis* in spite of all these lazy people that don't want to earn an honest buck *wagging finger of shame*. —Had To Get It On
The thing about Junior College, community college. Alot of community colleges dont get nearly as much respect as they should. Some community colleges are actually incredibly helpful and suprisingly well staffed and do alot of good.
It seems that since Adam had a couple of bad memories and associations with the junior college institutions he now blowshard about it, as if the one or two junior colleges that he had some knowledge about back in the 70's are in anyway an example of what community colleges are like today.
True, but don't you think he really knows this, but continues to rail against them as a joke? I mean he is partly right, but obviously there are many situations where people, for whatever reason have been able to transfer to a four year school and graduate and, maybe without the JC they wouldn't have been able to do it. Even a couple called into Loveline and said so.
His rant I think was geared to letting people know that unwanted children are the queen bee of most antisocial behavior (antisocial as in crimal behavior, continued patterns of abuse, chronic depression, lack of career ambition, leaving the lid off of peanut butter jars, etc)
True, and I like that part, but when he gets to the part about how HE has to pay for it, this is where he goes into overdrive.
I must have missed the part where Adam exposes his hypocrisy in your thesis there. Misguided or misinformed perhaps in the part about supporting the cost of the war over social programs, but hardly the stuff of hypocrisy.
A hypocrite would be more like someone who, oh, let's say, professes to be a card-carrying, ACLU-loving liberal yet supports the idea of sterilization for unfit parents. Now where have I heard that before...
The most recent example of adam being a huge hypocrite is something that I heard in the backlog of TACS shows. This was the March 3rd 2006 episode in which Jillian Barberie called in to discuss her recent loss (second place), to Kristy Swanson, on Skating with the Stars.
Adam made a comment about how it's always a bummer when you have people playing for fun raising money for charity but then there is always one A-hole in the game who takes it way too seriously and ruins it for everybody.
This, coming from the same guy who almost beat the living F out of his softball coach in the Celebrity softball tournament.
Everytime Adam used to talk about "having tons of game" in the softball tournaments I pictured him at the plate hitting a rocket line drive right at pitcher Lynette Carollas' head nearly killing her.
Then as he rounds the bases he leg tackles second baseman Webster. Then he manages to steal third, then steal home by steamrolling catcher Dakota fanning knocking her unconscious.
Adam would often celebrate by trashing the dugout. Great Guy.
I would have read this if you split it up in to paragraphs.
I read it but it was a pain to parse. Bite sized chunks would have been better.
How hard and how serious the people around you are working, whether you like to believe it or not, influcences how hard you'll study and how serious you'll take your classes.
You're definitely right there.
It's completely selfish that people have children when they can't support them, emotionally or finanically, and ultimately ruin their lives. It's criminal to allow it to happen.
I so agree and I still can't believe (or, rather, don't want to) that I'm actually putting more effort into making sure I can afford for my dog to have puppies than a lot of people put into having kids.
signum crucis
No comment - it's just my policy to make a note when someone says something that I have to look up.
...don't you think he really knows this, but continues to rail against them as a joke?
It's not just a joke - there's some truth to what he says (at least in his mind), he just removes subtlety, ignores some details and takes it to an extreme (unfortunately people don't like to listen to a rational, unbiased digestion of every issue in excruciating detail).
This, coming from the same guy who almost beat the living F out of his softball coach in the Celebrity softball tournament.
Didn't he do that (and by do that, I mean verbally; I don't remember anything coming to blows) because he just wanted to play and the coach was taking the game too seriously and didn't want to give him a chance?
Then again, I've never seen the tournaments (if what you said is accurate, it does sound childish and uncool).
Anyway, one last thing to pad my post since it's not quite long enough yet. Is there anyone who's completely self-consistent in everything they say and do? Also, is there anyone (including yourself), or any political organization that you agree with entirely?
I'm willing to bet not (and, if there were, I'd worry).
I have no problem with any of this, but Adam has always said you should just name your kid what you're going to call him, instead of giving him an "official" name and then only using a nickname. Then he proceeds to name his kid Santino and only calls him Sonny. Also, Adam has long railed against obnoxious alternative spellings for names and then names his kid Natalya even though the typical spelling is Natalia.
Well it was probably Lynettes idea. Maybe Adam even interjected with his view on people having crazy names and she flipped out and he decided its not worth the aggravation and said "fine!" and left Lynette to her own devices to name the kids whatever she wants.
Holy hell Tony - was the OP in response to Peggy Johnson's husbandish guy? I didn't hear it till just now but that was so effing warped.
I don't care how much (or little) you're paying in taxes but whatever it is, you should be pissed that you're subsidizing some child molesting a-hole who's been to prison multiple times (not cheap), has molested at least two girls (who we know of; then again, that's probably all it took to get it out of his system), and has strewn his seed all over the south.
The guy thought he made more than twice what Adam does - the sick thing is as disconnected from reality as he may be, he probably has actually cost the state nearly that much (before he started doing the morning show, anyway).
Monday, September 4, 2006 at 3:04 AM Edited Monday, September 4, 2006 at 3:06 AM
I would have read this if you split it up in to paragraphs.
OK I am going to post about the ACS. If you don't like that, then don't read any further.
Regarding Adam's Friday rant, where people are thinking he is God and wanting him to run for President for saying stuff he said on Loveline for years, I have to admit I am as about as liberal as they come, yet I agree with 95% of what he says about this and have for a long time. He really makes a lot of sense and even though I think he is almost always wrong about the ACLU, I could see myself backing him on this stuff, even though I never would have before listening to Adam, like sterilizing these women, eventually, and making it a lot harder to have kids for people who abuse the privilege because, as he says, it is really screwing this country up.
But when he goes off on the part about all the tax dollars it costs (which it does), not only does he fail to mention that even the total amount spent on welfare, etc. in a year in this country does not hold a candle compared to what is spent on defense, even before the current "war." In recent years, even under Clinton, defense made up half of the total budget, and, I don't have current stats, but surely, since Bush started this war, it has to be even higher.
Yet not only does Adam never point this out, he is in favor of the war, even though it makes gas prices higher--he doesn't care, he wants it ten bucks a gallon anyway, and kills thousands, including innocent civilians, as well as making it more dangerous for people throughout the world by creating many new terrorists.
I have always loved Adam for his stance on religion, and for the little things that are still important, the red turn arrows, his rants about "Rape-Bank," and other traffic matters, about the retarded traffic reports, and dozens of other things, but gee I wish he could wise up about some of the really important things. I always thought of him as being just a regular guy and not out of touch, but since he got on this show I see he is not such a normal guy anymore. Like when he says he doesn't care about the government listening in on phone conversations because the government doesn't care about who you are talking to, that they only want to take 40 or 50% of what you make. He comes off as really arrogant and stupid when he says that because most people, don't make anywhere near enough to have to pay this much. I think I pay around 22%. I still really like Adam, but I fear I am going to have to take him off my list of "heroes" on MySpace.(that last line was a joke--not a funny joke but a joke nonetheless)
I must have missed the part where Adam exposes his hypocrisy in your thesis there.
The part is Adam goes into a wild rant as noted, especially about how much this all costs him--which I AGREE with, yet he defends Bush and the war which costs a hell of a lot more than the first thing. My point is that his major gripe at least on this day was the monetary cost. Not that he is not also upset about how society is hurt by people like the callers he talked to that day, and so on. But my particular point about the hypocrisy was his rant about the cost to him. And he even had a chance to talk about this during the news later in the same show where Teresa mentioned something about Bush and the war, but he just made some lame attempt at a joke. I think it is hypocrisy to complain about one thing that costs the taxpayer a lot of money that need not happen, but not to ever mention or complain about a much greater amount of taxpayer money that is being wasted on something unneeded and unnecessary.
A hypocrite would be more like someone who, oh, let's say, professes to be a card-carrying, ACLU-loving liberal yet supports the idea of sterilization for unfit parents.
I never said I was a member of the ACLU. Although I do support much of what they do, I have real trouble with their stance defending the NRA as well as their support of religion in some instances.
I have no problem with any of this, but Adam has always said you should just name your kid what you're going to call him, instead of giving him an "official" name and then only using a nickname.
I don't remember him talking about that, although it does sound like something he might say.
Holy hell Tony - was the OP in response to Peggy Johnson's husbandish guy? I didn't hear it till just now but that was so effing warped.
Yes Anobody, but I agree completly with Adam about all that. I just think that as much as he complains about the money wasted on people like that, he should complain even more about the war, because, as bad as the system is messed up as far as people like the caller and similar callers on Loveline, the amount of money and loss of life in the war is far worse. But that affects so few people in the US, so people don't care, whereas the first thing contributes to, as Adam says, the possibility we may be robbed, murdered, etc., so I understand the logic. But it frustrates me because I used to agree with Adam on about 98% of what he said.
Just for future reference and apropos to nothing, I am.
Although I do support much of what they do, I have real trouble with their stance defending the NRA as well as their support of religion in some instances.
I hate the NRA (although, thanks to my former-father-in-law, I'm actually a member of it too).
Still, I think we're stuck with the second amendment (I wouldn't want to repeal it just to avoid setting a precedent that could be used against the others in the Bill of Rights).
It's easy to point at the ACLU supporting religion and Nazis, and become disenchanted with them. However, they're not really supporting those groups, per se, but their protection under the First Amendment (and, at the same time, everyone else's).
...as bad as the system is messed up as far as people like the caller and similar callers on Loveline, the amount of money and loss of life in the war is far worse.
Yes and no. You could make a strong argument that the war has a lot to do with Adam's root issues.
Take, for example, the very fact that Bush is our current president - that even half of the voters thought it'd be a good idea for such a buffoon to represent us and wield that much power. I can't imagine that he could ascend to such a place if the populace didn't include so many morons such as Cleatus (and their many illegitimate children).
The influence of Cleatus, and his inbreed ilk, reaches deep into the heart of society - causing us to crack at the seems and throwing our political process out of whack. Even if they don't vote, themselves, they influence those who do to make stupid choices. They provide a wellspring of criminals, drug users, child molesters, all the bad things that people like to freak out about and then scream 'build more prisons!'.
Between them and their hard working publicists in local TV news stations across the country, there are a lot of people who are so scared of everything that they're willing to believe whatever the gobernment tells them and they'll vote for any politician who they think will protect them from the barbarian hoards at the gate.
Perhaps the only good thing about the situation is that Cleatus' kids will comprise the bulk of the infantry (well, I guess that's good, if we're only interested in warm bodies running around and killing people).
it frustrates me because I used to agree with Adam on about 98% of what he said
Perhaps you're just maturing and starting to think more for yourself? I love Adam and agree with a lot of what he says, but I also think that a fair bit of it is ill-conceived bullshit (though his batting average is a lot better than most).
Having said all of the above, I do agree that the cost of the war dwarfs all of our social programs (though not the aggregate societal cost of the Cleatuses of the world).
The country and the world would be a much better place if only a small fraction of what we're spending in Iraq were applied to solving Adam's issue, and dealing with the other nests that politicians are too chicken-shit afraid to touch (not to just blame them - we, the people wouldn't elect them any other way)
Monday, September 4, 2006 at 9:16 PM Edited Monday, September 4, 2006 at 9:17 PM
Still, I think we're stuck with the second amendment (I wouldn't want to repeal it just to avoid setting a precedent that could be used against the others in the Bill of Rights).
Yeah, but, without quoting it here, you can interpret it a lot of ways and the NRA wants it interpreted in the most literal way possible.
Between them and their hard working publicists in local TV news stations across the country, there are a lot of people who are so scared of everything that they're willing to believe whatever the gobernment tells them and they'll vote for any politician who they think will protect them from the barbarian hoards at the gate.
Right, but I think if many of these people would turn off Fox News and realize that Bush and his ilk really only are using them for their votes and only give lip service to a lot of that stuff. They keep them voting Republican by giving a lot of time to abortion, prayer in schools and immigration, but actually do little about those isssues once elected, when voting the other way would be better for them financially, whether it be lower taxes or more services.
t frustrates me because I used to agree with Adam on about 98% of what he said
Perhaps you're just maturing and starting to think more for yourself?
God I think I am stuck in perpetual immaturity for the rest of my life.
The country and the world would be a much better place if only a small fraction of what we're spending in Iraq were applied to solving Adam's issue, and dealing with the other nests that politicians are too chicken-shit afraid to touch (not to just blame them - we, the people wouldn't elect them any other way)
Check your facts folks. The current war notwithstanding, defense spending has historically been between 4-6 percent of the federal budget. Single biggest expenditure - social security, an entitlement program. So, next time you go whining about the big bad military, get your facts straight.
This pie chart would beg to differ. It's from 2000, when army base closer Clinton was in office.
I couldn't find a a pie chart fro last year, but here are the amounts:
military - 505,796 million
medicare - 303,400 million
Social Security - 531,657 million
total budget - 2,582,889 million
So, military was 19.5% of total budget in 2005. Not quite near your 4-6% claim. Even during the Clinton era, the military budget was more than 4-6% of the total budget.
And yes, entitlements such as Social Security (which we pay into now and later generations will pay into for us) and Medicare (which we pay into now and later generations will pay into for us) are the largest portion of the budget. Excellent work. You thiiiiis close to balancing the budget. Now go watch some tv.
Oh wait a second - I see where you got that - that's the percentage of the GDP.
Hmmm, GDP, what is that? oh yeah - Gross Domestic Prodect - as in the entire market value of final goods and services produced in the country every year.
What about Social Security? Well, from the same document - about $834 billion in 2007 whereas defense will be around $527 (both assuming we don't go 'off-budget').
So, yeah, the evil entitlement Social Security does get a little more than defense but it's a bit disingunious to claim that it's overwhelmingly so (or to use the % of GDP, IMO).
Yeah, but, without quoting it here, you can interpret it a lot of ways and the NRA wants it interpreted in the most literal way possible.
Fair enough.
Right, but I think if many of these people would turn off Fox News and realize that Bush and his ilk really only are using them for their votes and only give lip service to a lot of that stuff. They keep them voting Republican by giving a lot of time to abortion, prayer in schools and immigration, but actually do little about those isssues once elected, when voting the other way would be better for them financially, whether it be lower taxes or more services.
If only they would.
The weirdest thing about people who watch Fox News (*cough* Andrew *cough*) is that they seem to think that its right bias isn't that bad and is no more severe than the left bias of CNN. Maybe I'm just showing my own bias but I've been trying to watch Fox lately and it's just unashamidly, comically, novelty biased. I mean, they don't even seem to be making any effort to hide it. At least CNN (which I don't think is particularly left leaning; just fluffy) tries to make an effort.
God I think I am stuck in perpetual immaturity for the rest of my life.
I used to think that when I was younger. Then I realized that you never magically get mature (it's disturbing how much continuity there is in my thinking between now and when I was a child, and I don't think I'm remotely unique in that respect).
If I live to be 100, I'll probably never see another president better than Bill Clinton.
It seems like the really good narcissistic sociopaths come around once every 30 years.
I'll be waiting with bated breath for the next one to come around.... that is, unless we can all get together and change the constitution to revoke the 22'nd ammendment. Anyone wanna start the internet petition?
Of course it's a function of GDP - that's the only way to have a cross-country means of comparison. However you want to look at it, GDP or actual federal outlays, entitlement programs get, on average, FOUR TIMES the dollars that DoD gets. My point is that people (original poster) should stop whining about things they don't understand.
(rouding off heree for simplicity) 500,000 million for defense (not including non-defense discretionary) / 800,000 million (could be as high as 1,300,000 million when including Medicaid) for entitelments.
hmmmm 5 / 8 does not equal 4. My calculator is not broken.
Tuesday, September 5, 2006 at 9:34 AM Edited Tuesday, September 5, 2006 at 9:36 AM
Of course it's a function of GDP - that's the only way to have a cross-country means of comparison
Of course that's what you meant.
defense spending has historically been between 4-6 percent of the federal budget
There's a HUGE FREEKING DIFFERENCE between 4-6% of the federal budget (when its actually more than 1/3 of the budget) and 4-6% of GDP.
JJ is that you?
FOUR TIMES
*edit* Colin addressed this differently, but giving you the best mix of numbers possible to make your case (from Colin's chart), we have 15% for defense and 45% for all entitlements, social security, medicare and medicaid. So that's 3 times (not quite FOUR but still significantly more than defense - in a year when defense spending was relatively low).
*but* the government doesn't exist for defense alone and it's a bit disingenuous to combine social security, medicare, medicaid and all other means-tested entitlements (not to mention that it shouldn't exactly be shocking that if you combine most of the major outlays, they would be larger than a single one).
OP and AbsoluteCarib --- I totally agree...especially the bit about junior college. They actually do help some students both financially and academically. No need to ALWAYS put them down.
There's nothing wrong with Capitalism There's nothing wrong with free enterprise Don't try to make me feel guilty I'm so tired of hearing you cry There's nothing wrong with making some profit If you ask me I'll say it's just fine There's nothing wrong with wanting to live nice I'm so tired of hearing you whine About the revolution Bringin' down the rich When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby! If it ain't one thing Then it's the other Any cause that crosses your path Your heart bleeds for anyone's brother I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass You criticize with plenty of vigor You rationalize everything that you do With catchy phrases and heavy quotations And everybody is crazy but you You're just a middle class, socialist brat From a suburban family and you never really had to work And you tell me that we've got to get back To the struggling masses (whoever they are) You talk, talk, talk about suffering and pain Your mouth is bigger than your entire brain What the hell do you know about suffering and pain . . .
All of your goals are the fucking same As every other jerk in this stupid game Your brains have been washed and hung out to dry You don't doubt it and you don't know why
Capitalists Suck! Capitalists Suck! Capitalists Suck! They really suck!!!
ok, so i don't really believe all that, i was just feeling contrary. plus, i've been waiting for the opportunity to post some D.R.I. lyrics.
Friday, September 8, 2006 at 7:22 AM Edited Friday, September 8, 2006 at 7:23 AM
If I live to be 100, I'll probably never see another president better than Bill Clinton.
This isn't the sarcasm thread. Still funny though.
I'm considering TonyInPortland as a possible new member of the anobody Gay Army, mainly because I keep reading his name as TonyInOrlando. — greymatters
I believe I tagged him as aGA material a while back and was rebuked. Come on!
I'm not up on current accountant lingo. Let's just say Plus Column and Minus Column. So welfare on those excess baggage sewer children goes in the minus column. Spending money equipping those kids for military goes in the minus column. The USA is a fairly wealthy country. That means more is going in the plus column than the minus column. Who reckons the plus column gets filled up from stuff connected with that minus column stuff? I dunno.
Saturday, September 9, 2006 at 11:18 PM Edited Saturday, September 9, 2006 at 11:19 PM
(This is TonyInPortland posting)
I think that's a different thread, zt. —TonyInPortland
If they can get Steve Irwin, they can get Stryker.
I wish!
Check your facts folks. The current war notwithstanding, defense spending has historically been between 4-6 percent of the federal budget. Single biggest expenditure - social security, an entitlement program. So, next time you go whining about the big bad military, get your facts straight.
I am no expert, but I just put a few words into google and got this:
Human Resources: 33 % Military: 30 % Past Military: 19 % General Government: 12 % Physical Resources: 6 %
Current military” includes Dept. of Defense ($449 billion), the military portion from other departments ($114 billion), and an unbudgetted estimate of supplemental appropriations ($100 billion). “Past military” represents veterans’ benefits plus 80% of the interest on the debt.*
I don't think Social Security counts since it is taxed separately. This is estimated for 2007.
If only they would.
The weirdest thing about people who watch Fox News (*cough* Andrew *cough*) is that they seem to think that its right bias isn't that bad and is no more severe than the left bias of CNN. Maybe I'm just showing my own bias but I've been trying to watch Fox lately and it's just unashamidly, comically, novelty biased. I mean, they don't even seem to be making any effort to hide it. At least CNN (which I don't think is particularly left leaning; just fluffy) tries to make an effort.
I really can't watch it for more than a minute or two. It turns my stomach to see what they have been getting away with for years now. People buy it hook, line and sinker.
God I think I am stuck in perpetual immaturity for the rest of my life.
I used to think that when I was younger. Then I realized that you never magically get mature (it's disturbing how much continuity there is in my thinking between now and when I was a child, and I don't think I'm remotely unique in that respect).
When I was younger I thought I would change as I aged, like after marriage and stuff. Now that I am divorced I still am the same level of immaturity. Probably contributed to the divorce, if you ask my ex-wife, I suppose.
If I live to be 100, I'll probably never see another president better than Bill Clinton.
Sad, but true.
I'm considering TonyInPortland as a possible new member of the anobody Gay Army, mainly because I keep reading his name as TonyInOrlando.
Well unfortunately, if you read the other thread, I can't use that name anymore, so see if having the word "penile" in my name makes me seem gay.
