|
|
 |
TortillaFactory |
+ |
Monday, August 14, 2006 at 2:36 PM In the grand tradition of writers like Chaucer, Fight Club author Chuck Palahniuk's latest novel is a series of short stories tied together by a larger narrative. Each story is attributed to one of his characters (in this case, "Comrade Snarky"). There is some history given on the character before "her" story is presented, but I'm interested to see what everyone thinks of the story itself. Here's the story, scanned from the novel, Haunted, available in bookstores everywhere. It deals with feminism but also with the concept of the abused becoming the abuser. I thought some of you might find it interesting; I know I did. Oh, and it might be offensive to some. So neither the faint of heart nor the faint of butt should read this story. —TortillaFactory |
|
|
|
|
Had To Get It On |
+ |
Monday, August 14, 2006 at 3:11 PM Not bad. Those women were kind of bad ass. But not totally bad ass, unless they accost some guy they have a problem with outside of their protective conclave. —Had To Get It On |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
+ |
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 at 12:07 AM I actually own that book, it's a great read.
I especially loved the dude who beats off at the bottom of the pool and has his colon or instestines sucked out by the pool drain and he almost drowns in a pool full of blood and semen. CLASSIC!!! —rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
|
|
|
|
TortillaFactory |
+ |
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 at 5:31 AM But not totally bad ass, unless they accost some guy they have a problem with outside of their protective conclave. Well, yes...but the point is, it was a woman. Spoilers. I especially loved the dude who beats off at the bottom of the pool and has his colon or instestines sucked out by the pool drain and he almost drowns in a pool full of blood and semen. "Guts" is Palahniuk's most infamous story, and actually the first of his that I read. Someone posted it on here years ago. Supposedly people have fainted at live readings...it's really not that bad, but whatever floats your boat. ("If I told you what it tasted like, you'd never eat calamari again.") I think my favourite story is the one about the CPR doll. I believe it was called "Exodus." —TortillaFactory |
|
|
|
|
catloaf |
+ |
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 at 5:35 AM The whole time I was reading that story, all I could think about was Pamela Anderson, or Pamela Lee, or Pamela Rock or whatever the hell her name is, and how Dr. Drew used to talk about her being a female female impersonator. —catloaf |
|
|
|
|
anobody |
+ |
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 at 10:16 AM "Guts" is Palahniuk's most infamous story, and actually the first of his that I read. Someone posted it on here years ago. Supposedly people have fainted at live readings...it's really not that bad, but whatever floats your boat. ("If I told you what it tasted like, you'd never eat calamari again.") I've still not read it, but long before I knew it was a story, somebody called in presenting that as their problem, and I was totally sold (and disgusted). As far as I could tell, Adam and Drew bought it too. —anobody |
|
|
|
|
rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 1:05 AM
Edited Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 1:05 AM I think my favourite story is the one about the CPR doll. I believe it was called "Exodus." —TortillaFactory
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ALMOST FORGOT ABOUT THAT ONE!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHH GOD! I can never look at those things the same without getting the vivid image of a white bubble forming at the lips and the popping making the whole class room sick with the smell. Not to mention razor blades.
—rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
|
|
|
|
ProfessorCarbuncle |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 4:26 AM You might also read Choke by Palaniuk. His female characters are always interesting. I'm not sure what P thinks of the ladies... Fight Club (film and book) explored sexuality and masculinity in a way that few other movies do. That film is really underrated in that regard, I think. And he's quotable! "The only difference between suicide and martyrdom is press coverage." "Every woman is just a different kind of problem." "Everyone smiles with that invisible gun to their head." —ProfessorCarbuncle |
|
|
|
|
TortillaFactory |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 7:45 AM
Edited Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 7:48 AM Choke was very interesting too, particularly the "rape" scene. I lol'd. When it comes to Chuck, my list from best to worst goes: Diary
Fight Club
Choke
Lullaby
Survivor
Invisible Monsters
Haunted
Stranger Than Fiction Though perhaps it's not fair to compare a nonfiction book to his novels. Even his worst is still great. EDIT: Carbuncle, I don't know if you're aware of this - lots of people aren't - but Chuck is gay. Depending on how you view this, it either makes his criticism of women justifiable, or just very very interesting. (He said he wrote Fight Club as a sort of modern male bonding ritual, like the old barn-raisings. There is no model of interaction for men today; the way women interact fits right in with society, but males of all species in the wild are used to viewing other males as a threat. Hence, a club where you can establish dominance.) —TortillaFactory |
|
|
|
|
ProfessorCarbuncle |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 5:03 PM
Edited Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 5:05 PM Chuck is gay hm. Well I learned something today. That brings a few things into focus. I have Diary but haven't got around to reading it. Maybe I'll finally give it a look. Also, I've heard a couple reliable sources criticize his writing that he's not a very good writer. But I say fuck that, I'm reading Chuck P for his ideas and stories. That's like criticizing Bob Dylan or Tom Waits for their musicianship. It's all about the stories, people. There is no model of interaction for men today Interesting way of putting it. Yeah, men are in transition as a gender, which hasn't received the same amount of 'press' that women's status has. You might also think of models of masculinity of being so diverse that it can't be readily defined. Also, I think men (in America/the West in particular) are losing their mascinline identity from one generation to the next. I mean I look at photos of my relatives from 60+ years ago, and they are clearly male. They looked like bulldogs and died before they were 55. Everything becomes too convenient, we're not tough stock anymore. Oh well, at least I can change the big water-cooler bottle at the office and the chicks can't... —ProfessorCarbuncle |
|
|
|
|
anobody |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 5:10 PM
Edited Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 5:15 PM hm. Well I learned something today. That brings a few things into focus. Me too (in particular, Fight Club suddenly takes on a whole new meaning). There is no model of interaction for men today Well, 'till about a year ago, there was this late night radio talk show thingy that was ostensibly about sex and relationships (but had more to do with random ass shit) that did a good job for me. —anobody |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
anobody |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 7:06 PM I wish you were wrong, but I'm sure you're not. —anobody |
|
|
|
|
TortillaFactory |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 8:47 PM hm. Well I learned something today. That brings a few things into focus. That's what I thought, too, but I still don't see it in his work. In Invisible Monsters, the protagonist's brother is gay, and....well, the less revealed about the plot the better. But while homosexuality is a large part of the storyline, I would never single him out as a "gay writer" just from his work. I have Diary but haven't got around to reading it. Maybe I'll finally give it a look. It's by far my favourite of his; the plot is amazingly well-done. Typically people either love Diary and dislike Invisible Monsters, or vice-versa...more people seem to dislike Diary than not. I think that's a shame. It's one of the most intricately and skillfully plotted stories since Orson Scott Card's Speaker for the Dead, which is saying something. Also, I've heard a couple reliable sources criticize his writing that he's not a very good writer. But I say fuck that, I'm reading Chuck P for his ideas and stories. That's like criticizing Bob Dylan or Tom Waits for their musicianship. It's all about the stories, people. To me, good writing is original, evocative, compelling, and possessing a purpose. Chuck's writing has all of these qualities. Disliking his style is one thing, and something I can forgive...but still. Dylan's actually a great analogy, except it could be argued that Palahniuk writes better than Dylan sang. Interesting way of putting it. Yeah, men are in transition as a gender, which hasn't received the same amount of 'press' that women's status has. You might also think of models of masculinity of being so diverse that it can't be readily defined. Also, I think men (in America/the West in particular) are losing their mascinline identity from one generation to the next. I mean I look at photos of my relatives from 60+ years ago, and they are clearly male. They looked like bulldogs and died before they were 55. Everything becomes too convenient, we're not tough stock anymore. Oh well, at least I can change the big water-cooler bottle at the office and the chicks can't... All of this is true - we haven't left room in our society for men. We are, as Palahniuk says in Fight Club, a generation of men raised by women. The filling of the water-cooler may just become the new assertion of dominance. It played a bit of a symbolic role in Secretary, as I recall. (Seriously, those things are a bitch. I deal with something similar at work - we have a huge gas container filled with water, which has to be poured into something that's about at my neck level...the only time my fucktard sociopath ex-boss ever showed any concern was when he saw me struggling with it and tried to help me. I didn't let him.) —TortillaFactory |
|
|
|
|
greymatters |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 9:10 PM Tiffany, whenever I see a big bulge of text like that I'm scared shitless that anobody will read the books on the quick and start replying to every sentence you wrote. Then, the rest of the anobody Gay Army will show up and turn your thread into a aGA orgy. In the end, I will have no choice but to call on Nathaniel to Colbert this thread. —greymatters |
|
|
|
|
Beat It! |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 9:13 PM He's got a point. And better than that, I can make this thread become forever Lost. —Beat It! |
|
|
|
|
TortillaFactory |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 9:15 PM Anobody has no power over me. I shall defeat him, sort of like how Jennifer Connelly defeated David Bowie in Labyrinth. Only with fewer muppets. —TortillaFactory |
|
|
|
|
anobody |
+ |
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 at 9:16 PM Tiffany, whenever I see a big bulge of text like that I'm scared shitless that anobody will read the books on the quick and start replying to every sentence you wrote Don't worry my charcoaly friend - there's no danger of that. —anobody |
|
|
|
|
rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
+ |
Thursday, August 17, 2006 at 12:46 AM I've only read Lullaby, Haunted, and Choke. I own the last 2, so I guess Diary will be next one to pick up. —rAnCIDsICk@!!! |
|
|
|
|
smaller hands |
+ |
Thursday, August 17, 2006 at 1:17 AM Oooooh, can someone please transcribe the part in Choke where he is talking about how even the worst blowjob is better than morning dew drops in flowers or say, the laughter of children.
I let people "borrow" my books too much.
—smaller hands |
|
|
|
|
ProfessorCarbuncle |
+ |
Thursday, August 17, 2006 at 4:57 AM except it could be argued that Palahniuk writes better than Dylan sang. I disagree but point taken. I would never single him out as a "gay writer" just from his work. Yeah, I didn't mean to say that his writing is identifiably gay, just that gay men have even more reason to be conflicted about male-ness and masculinity than perhaps the common straight guy. They really run the gamut. I mean, some gay men feel they are a woman wearing a man's skin, some gay men are totally masculine regular sports-fan types who happen to like men, just like some men happen to like a big ass on a lady. ...can someone please transcribe the part in Choke where he is talking about how even the worst blowjob is better than morning dew drops in flowers or say, the laughter of children. but certainly not better than a basket full of puppies. —ProfessorCarbuncle |
|