Saturday, January 8, 2005 at 1:21 PM Copyright 2004 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc.
ABC News Transcripts SHOW: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (10:30 AM ET) - ABC December 5, 2004 Sunday LENGTH: 3339 words HEADLINE: HEADLINER BILL FRIST BODY:
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS (Off Camera) Which brings us to our headliner, Senate majority leader, Bill Frist. Good morning, Senator. SENATOR BILL FRIST, MAJORITY LEADER Good to be with you. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Well, you heard the president there. I know you've been talking to him privately, as well. Have you been able to assure him that the bill will pass this week? SENATOR BILL FRIST George, we started four months ago. Really started a lot longer ago than that but four months ago the 9/11 commission report came out. We've been going nonstop through recesses, through breaks, multiple hearings, we had a bill two, about three weeks ago. Two remaining issues, one was the command and control, the issue you mentioned, another immigration. We've been working nonstop through the weekend, yesterday, last night. I think, I think and it's always so dangerous to predict, but by the end of Tuesday or Wednesday we will have a bill that accomplishes what we want. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) How are you going to do it, though? Because I've heard that Senator Warner and Congressman Hunter say they need new language in the legislation and Senator Collins, who of course is the major proponent of the bill, another Republican, says no more changes. SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, you know, we had two bodies, the Senate and the House, very different bodies set up for different reasons developed two bills, same objectives different approaches, and out of all of the issues, the intelligence director, counterterrorism center, counterproliferation center, sharing of information, out of all that there's been agreement except on these two issues. And you're right, it's not just Chairman Hunter and Congressman Sensenbrenner. There are a lot of people who have questions because we're talking about safety and security, we're talking about that soldier on the battlefield, we want to make sure he or she has good intelligence and immigration is a huge issue that we're gonna keep addressing over this Congress regardless of what's in the bill. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) So who is going to get rolled here? SENATOR BILL FRIST I think everybody's gonna come to the table in the best spirit of the way these bodies work when they work well will come together and there will be compromise but compromise that will be to the satisfaction of the majority of people in the House and the Senate. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) You know, when this first came up a couple of weeks ago the blockage came up in the House, Speaker Hastert said that he was only going to move forward bills that had a majority of a majority. Had a majority of Republican support. Are you going to follow that same principle in the Senate? SENATOR BILL FRIST You know, we're gonna have to, in this Congress, it's going to be at least in the Senate much different than the last Congress or I'm going to work very hard with our Republican leadership and Democratic leadership to pull people together because we're going to take on big issues. The president is not running for reelection. Right now we can focus on the sort of issues like Social Security and tax simplification and the big issues that we know that are important. To do those and do them well it's gonna mean working across the aisle, Democrats, Republicans working together with civility, still there are going to be battles and fights and debates but that working together ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) So you're not committed to the Hastert approach? SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, I don't exactly, you know, I haven't heard, I don't know exactly what he meant. I can tell you in the United States Senate I'm gonna be reaching across and on everyone of these big issues, it's gonna be Republicans and Democrats working together to accomplish those issues. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Let me, let me talk about one of those big issues. Social Security reform which is probably the biggest one and the biggest question, of course, is how do you pay for this one to three trillion dollars in transition costs? The White House is signaling that you can borrow that money. You can increase the deficit but one of your chairmen, Charles Grassley, raised a big red flag in "The New York Times" and I want to show you what he said. He said that, "'Anybody who thinks borrowing money for the transition to personal accounts is going to solve the problem of the long-term solvency of Social Security doesn't understand the size of the problem.' Mr. Grassley said Congress would also have to put benefit reductions and tax increases on the table, in part to hold down the need for borrowing and in part to assure that any changes restore Social Security's long- term financial stability." Is Senator Grassley right? Do you need to put benefit cuts and tax increases on the table? SENATOR BILL FRIST To do this right, we've got to do it right because we're talking about the inability of fulfilling promises to your children, to the next generation and future generations and it really boils down to that and that is what Social Security is, it's our promise to that next generation. The president has said and made very clear and Congress will follow through that we're not going to do anything that affects the retirees today or near retirees. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) That's down to 55? SENATOR BILL FRIST We don't know exactly what the age is but it's important to give people that security so we're looking out at the problem which a little more than a decade from now we're going to be spending more money than money coming in. In 30 years from now if we do nothing and that's no option. If we do nothing, people's taxes would go up by 30 percent or benefits cut by 30 percent. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Yeah, but in the next ten years, if you have the private accounts you put yourself one to three trillion dollars more in the hole. SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, what we have is a promise in the future that we have made and that promise is $10.4 trillion, it's called unfunded liability but it's basically something we have promised the next generation and we can't deliver it the way it is structured now so what do you do? One way and I agree with Senator Grassley, we have to have a comprehensive look and solicit ideas from the outside, listen, debate. Talk about. A lot of people making suggestions. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) So you agree, benefit cuts and tax increases on the table for the long term? SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, well, let me say this, $10.4 trillion out there. We may need to make an investment up front and this came down to your question of a transition if you do the personal accounts, which I'm a great advocate for because it increases savings, increase in investment, that creates jobs. It grows the economy. If we do that, we may have to make an investment here in the next five years, ten years or 15 years. Now, by making that investment up front it may be a trillion dollars. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But where do you get the money for the investment? That's what I'm trying to pin down. SENATOR BILL FRIST The same way if you had a mortgage for your home and you wanted to begin to prepay that mortgage. You may have to borrow it. But what it does, that $10.4 trillion liability promise will be cut way down. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Let me just stop you right there. If you borrowed, isn't that like taking your Visa card to prepay your mortgage? You're borrowing more money. SENATOR BILL FRIST It is, but your mortgage goes from 10.4 trillion down to eight, seven, six, two. That liability to the future because you investing now and, yes, it's like taking bad medicine, it doesn't taste good but you prevent that disease in the future so it's prevention. It's an investment for the future. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But let's address what Senator Grassley said, he said maybe some borrowing if borrowing doesn't get to the scope of the problem you also need benefit cuts and tax increases. Do you agree that has to be on the table? SENATOR BILL FRIST Yeah, I think everything needs to be on the table. But the principles the president has set out, which I believe that we will adhere to, is that for retirees and near-retirees, there are going to be no tax increases, there are going to be no cuts in benefits. No alteration in benefits. The things that are on the table our experts tell us have to be things like personal accounts, allowing people to invest or have their money invested in a way that grows faster than just sticking it under a mattress. People have suggested changing retirement age. I don't know if we're going to do that. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Are you for it? SENATOR BILL FRIST I will look at it but, you know, personally I think we have to be careful, but I think it's something to look at. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Senator Lindsay Graham ... SENATOR BILL FRIST When Social Security started, it was 60 years of age and now people are living 'til 85 years of age and we haven't changed the system. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) One of your Republican colleagues, Senator Lindsey Graham has said what we should do is subject more income to the payroll tax, raise the cap from 90 to $160,000. Is that a good idea? SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, that's again an idea that's been proposed and I think we need to look at it. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Is it a good idea? SENATOR BILL FRIST Well, what it does, first $90,000 are taxed. Not above that. The problem with it, it doesn't fix the system permanently and the president said that he wants to fix the system permanently. What it does do, it shifts the day at which it would go bankrupt maybe three years, maybe four years depending how high you increase the tax. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But you're openly discussing all these? SENATOR BILL FRIST I think, listen, this has got to be done right. We're going to have to look at everything on the table. We are going to have to look at the benefits and the money that's going in, an issue that a lot of people don't realize is that the benefits that we have promised grow faster than prices over time. Again, we're going to have to come back and look. Should we adjust it? Should we make the benefits grow at the same rate that prices grow instead of the same rate wages? Yet, to fix the system permanently, we're going to have to look at everything. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But that's an interesting idea you bring up. It has been proposed by several people including the Social Security commission. But if you look at someone at average wages, that means when they require a 35-year-old is gonna get about $3,000 a month less than they get right now. SENATOR BILL FRIST Not than they get right now. Again, I think the American ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But as promised. SENATOR BILL FRIST Than promised, that's right and we have overpromised. Everybody agrees we've overpromised to the tune of, as I said, $10.4 trillion and so it's going to be hard to argue, I think, that as prices escalate over time if your benefits grow at that same rate it's gonna be hard ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) I misspoke, it was $3,000 a year, excuse me. Let me turn to another issue, judges. Your counterpart, the Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid signaled today that filibuster was on the table for judicial nominees. Can you guarantee that the Democrats won't succeed in filibustering a supreme court nominee? SENATOR BILL FRIST I cannot and that's sad for me to say. For 200 years, over 200 years really up until about 18 months ago in this country when the president sent a nominee over who had majority support, that consistent with our responsibility to give advice and consent under the constitution meant that you could vote yes or you could vote no, for or against but that nominee would get a vote. Unfortunately that precedent was changed, after this 200-history in the last Congress. We absolutely must go back to the norm and that norm is that when a president sends somebody over as majority support they get a vote because that changed ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But the Democrats said that's fine as long the president cooperates on the front end. What I'm trying to figure out is you can't prevent them from filibustering but do have some powers to prevent them from succeeding. And a lot of people are wondering if you're gonna use them, are you gonna use the so-called nuclear option to have a majority vote that would block the filibuster? SENATOR BILL FRIST Listen, you know, a lot are talking about it. And I've said we're gonna go back to the way it's been for 220 year, 15 years because that's what's going to happen. There are two ways to do it. You can change the rules and the precedents and one way of doing it is this constitutional option and that simply means by majority vote take it to the way it's always been. That this new unprecedented approach of using filibuster to kill these judges is wrong. I think what is probably preferable to me and I have to talk to my caucus and I think in many ways more reasonable to me is for me to go to Harry Reid and go to the Democratic leadership and basically say, just give us an up or down vote and ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) And if they don't? SENATOR BILL FRIST And really plea to the civility that I'm going to fight for. Go back to what has ruled this country in the Senate for a period of time that has worked perfectly until you tried to change the rules in this Congress. That's going to be my appeal and it's really up to them and if they don't, I've already told you that there is no way I for the good of the United States of America can allow them to change the rules in the middle of the road. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) So you'll use every option you have? SENATOR BILL FRIST That means I will pursue every option that I have and there are several options that we have as you well know. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Okay, let me switch to another subject. There was a bit of an uproar in Washington this week about this issue of these abstinence programs that are funded by the Federal government, the funding has doubled over the last four years but there was a report by the minority staff at the House Government Affairs Committee that showed that 11 of 13 of these programs are giving out false information. I want to show some of the claims they identified in the curricula. One of them was, one of the programs taught that "The actual ability of condoms to prevent the transmission of HIV/AIDS, even if the product is intact, is not definitively known." Another, "The popular claim that condoms help prevent the spread of STDs is not supported by the data." A third suggested that tears and sweat could transmit HIV and AIDS. Now, you're a doctor. Do you believe that tears and sweat can transmit HIV? SENATOR BILL FRIST I don't know. I can tell you ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) You don't know? SENATOR BILL FRIST I can tell you things like, like ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Well, wait, let me stop you, you don't know that, you believe that tears and sweat might be able to transmit AIDS? SENATOR BILL FRIST Yeah, no, I can tell you that HIV is not very transmissible as an element like, compared to smallpox, compared to the flu. It is not, but the first slide, because I think it's dangerous to show that and then sort of walk away. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) No, let's talk. I want to talk about all of it. SENATOR BILL FRIST But about, about condoms, for example. We know there's about a 15 percent failure rate. You know, this is a deadly virus and you know it is directly transmissible with a relatively high degree of infectivity by, by sexual relations. If there's a 15 percent failure rate in, in condoms ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But this was suggesting that they don't work even if the condom is intact. SENATOR BILL FRIST Oh, I know. But, but let me just say because the whole, the whole success, if you look in Africa today where as you know 28 million people are infected today is on this ABC, abstinence which is sort of the initial thrust itself which is the only way to prevent, only way to prevent. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Only surefire way. SENATOR BILL FRIST That's right. Only surefire. Very hard culturally in lots of approaches. Being faithful. Again, one partner and in certain cultures that is very hard and, then third, condoms. If you take out just condoms and say that is the answer with the 15 percent failure rate with a highly infective virus through sexual relations ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) These are suggesting that they're really never the answer. SENATOR BILL FRIST No, well, clearly. I'm telling you that the proposal that the Federal government supports is officially this A, B, C approach, we put $15 billion into this, what I would regard as one of the great moral and public health tragedies of the last 100 years, probably HIV/AIDS. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) But do you think these abstinence programs should be reviewed and that they should be required to give out scientifically accurate information? SENATOR BILL FRIST Oh, I think of course they should be reviewed, I mean, and that's in part our responsibility to make sure that all of these programs are reviewed but whether it's abstinence or whether it's condoms or whether it is better education on the infectivity of how washing hands in terms of the flu, all of these are public health challenges that we need in terms of better education, yes, the government has a role, especially if we're gonna be ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Let me just, I wanted to move to another subject, let me just clear this up, though. Do you or do you not believe that tears and sweat can transmit HIV? SENATOR BILL FRIST It would be very hard. It would be very hard for tears and sweat, I mean, you can get virus in tears and sweat but in terms of the degree of infecting somebody, it would be very hard. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Okay, let me turn to one final subject, steroids, in the news this week. Huge scandal in the Major Leagues. Your colleague Senator John McCain has said if Major League Baseball doesn't clean up its act in the next month and impose more stringent drug testing he's gonna try to pass legislation. Would you support that? SENATOR BILL FRIST You know, I hope it doesn't come to that. This could be ended bang just like that if everybody from the owners to the unions just step up and face the reality that we've got a huge problem and that huge problem is a problem not just in baseball but in sports generally and in our culture. John, obviously, John McCain does a tremendous job and he basically has said with the hammer that government has that we can both educate people through hearings but if not and if people responsible don't step up and clean their own house that government can step in and likely would step in. He made it very clear that he'll take it ... GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) And you'll support that? SENATOR BILL FRIST I don't know exactly what he plans on doing but I'll support being very aggressive if it cannot be addressed at the more local level which again I would much prefer. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) Senator Frist, thank you very much. SENATOR BILL FRIST Enjoyed it. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (Off Camera) We'll be back with the ranking Democrat on Senate Foreign Relations, Senator Joseph Biden. He's just back from Baghdad. ANNOUNCER "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," brought to you by ... commercial break —Marc | 
