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Faygo |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 2:15 PM This is a really old topic but I think a lot of smart atheists are in this board, just wanting to know some opinions. On September 8, 1892 a Boston-based youth magazine "The Youth's Companion" published a 22-word recitation for school children to use during planned activities the following month to commemorate the 400th anniversary of Columbus' discovery of America. Under the title "The Pledge to the Flag", the composition was the earliest version of what we now know as the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. First of all, I hated to stand up and recite the pledge everyday in elementary school. Columbus was a horribla man, in my opinion, who slaughtered native people and called them Indians because the dip shit thought it was India, and to celebrate that is just horrible. What I don't know is that is it unconstitutional to have "GOD" in the pledge of allegiance, or in money and crap. It seems like that guy that didn't want his daughter to have to recite the pledge is a really hated man. Just the other day i saw an old South Park episode, Red Catholic Love. I really didn't notice, until yesturday, that they really bash atheists in that epsisode. Saying their beliefs and then having shit come out their mouths. I ask you fellow atheists, should God be in the pledge? Would you care if your kids believed in god? What do you tell them when they're little, you can't tell them right away that there's no god, they'll start crying. discuss :)
—Faygo |
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gouranga3221 |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 2:24 PM From what I've heard on the subject, it seems that a lot of reasonable people get bogged down in semantics, breaking balls over the 'g' word. The kids who say the pledge probably just go through the motions, without giving a large deal of thought to it, anyway, and as far as 'god' being on the money, it's really never affected anyone that I could tell.Kids are far more likely to be influenced by what their nutjob parents instill in them. This whole 'get God out of the pledge and off the money' thing seems like those ACLU pussies
making a lot out of a little. —gouranga3221 |
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clodhopper |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 2:52 PM
Edited Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 2:53 PM I actually believe the entire Pledge should be junked. It's a worthless piece of crap. The idea of a free country is NOT having to pledge allegiance to the Republic as if it was more important than you. As for my kids, they can believe what they want. I was raised Catholic but in a way that never implied I MUST adopt it. If my children were to be religious, I might wonder what the fuck was wrong with them and I might not be happy about it, but I'd be a hypocrite if I tried to change them because of my personal feelings. —clodhopper |
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Dark Laith |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 5:46 PM
Edited Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 5:46 PM I agree with clodhopper. Although sadly I was raised in a way where I had no option of picking my belief. —Dark Laith |
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daveman |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 7:53 PM I'm an atheist... in high school i used to stand up, and then stand there with my hands at my side and not say the pledge. i don't believe in causing a big fuss over things, and if the teacher had said anything i probably would have said it just to shut her up, but i wasn't gonna waste the effort on that silly fucking recitation if i didn't have to. question: the religious conservatives say that they don't want to force anyone into their religion, that they respect other people's beliefs, that they don't want to turn the united states into a theocracy - so why are they constantly trying to cram christianity into government institutions that everyone's is forced to support via taxes, whether we are christians or not? —daveman |
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gouranga3221 |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 8:53 PM question: the religious conservatives say that they don't want to force anyone into their religion, that they respect other people's beliefs, that they don't want to turn the united states into a theocracy - so why are they constantly trying to cram christianity into government institutions that everyone's is forced to support via taxes, whether we are christians or not? —daveman They're lying, dude. They do that a lot. —gouranga3221 |
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Dubious Merit |
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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 at 11:03 PM The thing you're all missing is that there was no "God" in the original Pledge. That's why it doesn't fit the rhythm. It was added in 1954, during the Red Scare. (It even mentions this on the same jingoistic spectacle the original poster, Faygo, copied his second paragraph from.) So it's not like the pledge is something that sprung full-grown like Athena from George Washington's brow. No matter what your feelings about the ACLU, their version is certainly an interesting contrast. —Dubious Merit |
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ZT |
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Thursday, December 2, 2004 at 1:00 AM Ohh.. I heard this being talked about in the "worst episode ever" of Pirate Talk.
—ZT |
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daveman |
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Thursday, December 2, 2004 at 6:23 PM the next time you say the pledge, yell out "under Allah" during the under god part, just to piss the religious right-ers off and expose their intolerance. —daveman |
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no! cannot have! |
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Thursday, December 2, 2004 at 7:00 PM in middle school we had a student teacher from canada, who i think made a good point about the pledge of allegience. since he was canadian, he would stand respectfully while we recited the pledge everyday, but he himself would not pledge. this is what's great about free speech. it includes the right not to say what you don't believe in. no one has to say "under god." i wish it wasn't in the pledge, but there are much better ways to better the country without stupid lawsuits to get two words out of some crappy pledge. why not use the resources and time put toward this crappy mission and send everyone getting welfare birth control. —no! cannot have! |
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Dark Laith |
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Thursday, December 2, 2004 at 7:37 PM I doubt there would be sufficient funds. This whole ordeal wasn't that expensive, was it? —Dark Laith |
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NJC |
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Friday, December 3, 2004 at 8:29 AM "there are much better ways to better the country without stupid lawsuits to get two words out of some crappy pledge. why not use the resources and time put toward this crappy mission and send everyone getting welfare birth control." —no! cannot have! AMEN! (pun intended) —NJC |
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TortillaFactory |
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Friday, December 3, 2004 at 4:07 PM Thank you, Have. The problem with people nowadays is that they're so damn idealistic. We need to pick our battles. Sucks, but we do. —TortillaFactory |
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piesore |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 12:36 AM Sorry about bringing an old thread up from the depths, I just happened to see this as I was looking for another thread.
I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread that God has only been in the Allegience since the fifties, and was done really under the pressure of religious fundamentalists. If you read what Eisenhower had to say about it, he made it pretty clear it was for religious reason, so restore morality or something in the youth of the day.
It just annoys me when people say it's not about religion, the same argument I've heard about Creationism, when it has everything to do with religion. it's the same sort of people who say the Civil War wasn't about slavery, it was about state's rights. Yes...the state right to own slaves. Or how people who say the Holocaust never happened are just trying to reveal the truth, when they always turn out to be neo nazis. —piesore |
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Dark Laith |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 9:50 AM Well... there was more to the Civil War than just slavery. But yes, slavery was one of the big issues, so yes, it's still incorrect to say it wasn't about slavery. But nevermind that... —Dark Laith |
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foob2011 |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 10:02 AM
Edited Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 10:03 AM Actually, the Civil War was fought over the South's feeling that it had lost its voice in the Federal government. Another major issue was the states' rights to ignore federal legislation that it felt was unjust. I will prove that it wasn't fought with one of the major issues being the states' rights to allow slavery; the following states in which SLAVERY WAS ALLOWED, were PART OF THE UNION(north): Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Deleware. The institution of slavery itself was insignificant. —foob2011 |
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Faygo |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 12:26 PM it wasn't in the fifties by the way, but i still agree. Although, let the baby have his bottle. It doesn't bother me personally, and religious idiots will always win in this country. It's sadd really. —Faygo |
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PureChaos414 |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 1:01 PM Liz (TF) --
We SHOULD pick our battles and plan them out carefully (key word there), but unfortunately we don't and that is why we are at war right now. This country is going down the shitter pretty fast. I'm thinking of moving to Australia or some place where nobody ever is mad at you. I mean dear god, who could get mad at someone from 'down under' ? (BTW i think we should trash the pledge as well. I remember when I was in 8th grade civics class and as part of our final for the year, we had to write the entire pledge down word for word. nice.) --the other Liz —PureChaos414 |
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clodhopper |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 2:14 PM I said it before, but I'll say it again: the Pledge is a piece of shit. It should be completely abolished. In a free country, the idea is to NOT have to pledge alliegence to the state. That irony is lost on most people. —clodhopper |
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maxPOWER |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 2:28 PM one nation, under sky, with liberty and.... —maxPOWER |
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goodtimes3 |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 6:27 PM WHOOOOOOOOOOO CARES? let the christians worship their bible or w/e and can atheists really be offended by it? —goodtimes3 |
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Colin |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 6:30 PM Well, it WAS written by a socialist, so we all know what that means. *shrugs shoulders* —Colin |
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piesore |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 7:32 PM http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gl/us19.htm
It has some statistics showing the percentages of slave ownership, if you look at the northern states which still owned slaves, it's of usually significantly lower percentages than the south. If I remember correctly Maryland was a battleground state, so there was not uniform agreement within that state to cede, and it could be similar cases for those other states. —piesore |
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nvgoddess |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 8:22 PM Faygo, I'm pretty sure he's right - it was in the fifties. During the Red Scare, you know, McCarthyism and all that. Fun stuff. And I'm of the same opinion - God should not be in the Pledge of Allegiance. Maybe that's just my ACLU-ness coming out, but seriously... —nvgoddess |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 8:34 PM If I remember correctly Maryland was a battleground state -piesore
You remember correctly.
—Dusty TheHick |
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piesore |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 6:06 AM Ok, thank you, so my point was with those northern states is I would imagine they were on the cusp of leaving the Union, does anyone know what was required for a state to leave? —piesore |
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Faygo |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 9:37 AM
Edited Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 9:37 AM dude, read the first post! it wasn't in the fifties. —Faygo |
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clodhopper |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 11:51 AM
Edited Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 11:51 AM Read your own link next time more thoroughly. This was the last change made to the Pledge of Allegiance. The 23 words what had been initially penned for a Columbus Day celebration now comprised a Thirty-one profession of loyalty and devotion to not only a flag, but to a way of life....the American ideal. Those words now read: I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
June 14, 1954
—clodhopper |
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steak_n_cheese |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 12:01 PM one nation, under sky, with liberty and.... —maxPOWER no its one nation, under Canada over Mexico, with liberty and.... —steak_n_cheese |
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Faygo |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 1:07 PM
Edited Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 1:07 PM sorry, i'm a bastard —Faygo |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 3:25 PM Whether or not your parents were married at the time of your birth is irrelevant. —Dusty TheHick |
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Dark Laith |
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Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 3:35 PM
Edited Thursday, January 13, 2005 at 3:35 PM Yeah, people would call you a bastard anyways. —Dark Laith |
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Forest Spirit |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 9:05 AM I say the Pledge every morning like everyone else, but I quitely leave the "under god" part out. I'm not comfortable saying it, so I don't. There doesn't have to be a huge fuss over it. —Forest Spirit |
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TortillaFactory |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 11:05 AM There doesn't have to be a huge fuss over it. THANK YOU. This should be everyone's motto, about everything. SHUT UP, EVERYONE. GO AWAY. DO YOUR THING, AND LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. I don't want to see anybody's nipple rings, I don't want to hear about anybody being offended, SO EVERYONE SHUT UP AND DO YOUR OWN THING. See? It's really NOT THAT HARD. —TortillaFactory |
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chix0r |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 12:35 PM Yeah, I don't have a problem with seeing anyone's nipple rings. —chix0r |
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Dark Laith |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 1:24 PM I don't like nipple rings... or fat old ugly guys... —Dark Laith |
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chix0r |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 2:41 PM Hmm..yup. When it comes to "ugliness," I'm pretty much ok looking at anything. —chix0r |
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Dusty TheHick |
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Saturday, January 15, 2005 at 8:04 PM It's really NOT THAT HARD. —TortillaFactory
I'm offended by such obscene material. *rimshot*
—Dusty TheHick |
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