Monday, August 9, 2004 at 5:55 PM Well, you asked for it here it goes...
September 22, 2003
Joining us now from Los Angeles is Dr. Drew Pinsky, co-host of "Love Line," a nationally syndicated radio program, author of the book "Cracked: Putting Broken Lives Together Again."
All right, Doctor. I mean, basically, in Western Europe, what you have is a very libertine attitude toward sex. You have very explicit instruction in public schools, and, you know, a lot of Americans are just - - don't want that imposed on their children here. However, we have much higher, as I mentioned, at -- in the introduction, pregnancy rates here, and, you know -- what do you think? DREW PINSKY, M.D., "LOVE LINE" HOST: Most of this discussion is a result of the fact that there's movement afoot to create abstinence as the only viable choice outside of marriage, as that being the only kind of information offered to young people, that everything else be censored. And that's really the problem, is that people are saying, well, look at Western Europe where things are uncensored, we're not necessarily saying go all the way to where they've gone, but they don't censor and they're doing much better. Kids are delaying the onset of sexual activity. Fewer partners. We have 75 times the gonorrhea rate of countries like Holland. O'REILLY: That's true. PINSKY: It's just unbelievable how much more severely disturbed things are here. Everyone agrees that abstinence is the goal. The problem is why is this one behavior, sexuality, the one behavior for young people that we seem to think that we have to censor? In other words, if we were talking about drugs and alcohol, would we say, hey, we can't talk about it because that might make them want to do it. Why... O'REILLY: No, but it's a different situation. Here... PINSKY: Why the... O'REILLY: Here -- here's the deal. And you made -- you made one misstatement there I have to correct, Doctor, to be fair here. PINSKY: Sure. O'REILLY: U.S. teens have sex at about the same rate as European teenagers. About the same... PINSKY: In certain... O'REILLY: ... rate. PINSKY: About the same as France, yes. O'REILLY: No, no. This is... PINSKY: But -- by the way... O'REILLY: This is... PINSKY: Well, let me -- let me tell you... O'REILLY: ... across the board. PINSKY: But that's... O'REILLY: This is across the board. PINSKY: That's improved. That has improved over the last two to three years. We used to be... O'REILLY: But here -- here's the discussion, and here's -- you just heard the sound bites that I got. These kids -- I spent, you know, a couple of days with them, 12 to 15, and they all have condoms given to them by their parents, all right. They all are conversant in every sexual thing you can imagine. Their childhoods are gone. I mean they don't have a childhood anymore. They're into the sex deal at 12 and with their parents' blessing. I don't think our society here in America for a variety of reasons wants that. Am I wrong? PINSKY: I agree. No, I think you're absolutely right. In fact, as someone who is a sex educator, I don't advocate plumbing lessons. I advocate dialogue. I advocate looking at the spiritual, social, interpersonal aspects of sexuality but discussing all aspects of it, not restricting the discussion. O'REILLY: All right. All right. That's fine. That's fine. PINSKY: Kids need just straight answers. O'REILLY: But the Europeans say, look, you Americans are failing your children. PINSKY: We're too uptight. That we're too uptight about. That's what they say. O'REILLY: Yes. Well, I -- who cares about that? I mean, you know, you go over there. They can do whatever they want. We're the most effective society on the face of the earth and the most productive. So they can say whatever they want. But the point is that they say we are going to do in-your-face instruction. I went to a sex museum in Copenhagen, and it's, you know, not in some sleazy place. It's right on the main... And they were running through class trips, and it was the hardest core stuff you've ever seen, and I was stunned. And I went whoa. And these kids came in, and they giggled, and they did that, and... You know, I went is this -- is this right? I mean I was just flabbergasted by it. PINSKY: Well, I can't say whether it is right with a capital R or not. It's certainly not what I would suggest, but there is something else that... O'REILLY: Why wouldn't you suggest it? PINSKY: Wait, wait. Because I think it can be traumatizing to kids, and I think it's not a good idea to force certain kinds of issues on them, rather than to simply answer their questions, whatever they might be. But let me tell you something that the Europeans do that we don't do, is they base their public policy on research and not ideology, and if our desire is really to help young people, why don't we just look at the research and apply what works? Very simple. O'REILLY: I'll tell you why. Oh, I'll tell you why. Because what works in one area doesn't work in another. One of the things that the Europeans have is a homogeneous society, OK. They don't have the diversity that we have here. PINSKY: They also have intact families, Bill, and that's the bigger issue from my standpoint. O'REILLY: Some of them do, and some of them don't. There's a lot of... PINSKY: They generally do. O'REILLY: There's a lot of fractured families over there, and there are a lot of libertine families. There are guys running around in France. I mean, if you don't have a mistress, you're a wuss. I mean come on. You know what the deal is over there. But we have a myriad of social problems here that they don't have over there because they have socialism and we have capitalism. That means that our poverty class is more of a problem than theirs is because they get entitlements. So you can't apply their techniques. But I'm more interested in the children than the ideology, and I am struggling with the fact... PINSKY: Me too. O'REILLY: ... that, no matter what we do in America, it seems that most of the children are still getting this warped view of sex way before they should be getting it. PINSKY: Well, I agree with you in the sense that what they are learning and what our culture teaches them is that sex is somehow a solution to how they're feeling, it's like a drug. Sex has become less about intimacy and less about a connection between two people, less about a family, more about how to feel gratified in the moment, and we have kids, as I said, who are coming out of disturbed family systems, difficulty feeling good, regulating flexibly their emotional lives, they're looking for solutions for that. And what the media offers, what the general culture offers them is drugs and sex and sort of this Nike world... O'REILLY: That's right. PINSKY: ... you go for it... O'REILLY: That's right. So I say... PINSKY: ... and they get stuck in that. O'REILLY: I say stop the explicit sexual instruction in the public schools and start to teach the kids critical thinking about sex, you see? Not -- not how to put a condom on a banana. I don't want that. PINSKY: OK. What about... O'REILLY: I want critical thinking about it... PINSKY: I agree with you. O'REILLY: ... about here's a "Friends" episode. This is what's wrong with the "Friends" episode. PINSKY: How about what's the human reality of what we're watching here rather than just what's the -- what's funny about it? O'REILLY: Well, the human reality is a little bit esoteric. I mean I want to get right down and say here's the mistake they're making, here's what can happen if you do it. It's like almost in your face, but in another way. PINSKY: You're singing my song. Yes, abs -- I agree with you, but I think the one caveat I would add to that is that kids need answers. They want to be able to go somewhere... O'REILLY: Oh, absolutely. If you answer their questions -- but you don't need a banana and a condom. PINSKY: Not necessarily. O'REILLY: Doctor, thanks very much. We appreciate it. Next on the rundown, you'd think the recall would be the hot topic in Los Angeles. Well, even hotter is a ban on lap dancing. Why is the second largest city in the United States of America bothering? We'll find out in a moment.
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June 24, 2003
Now for the top story tonight. The condom study says high schools in Massachusetts were not adversely affected by the distribution of condoms to students. Joining us now from Los Angeles is Dr. Drew Pinsky, the co- host of the nationally syndicated radio program "Loveline." All right, doc, what say you about my memo? And then we'll go over the specifics of the study. DREW PINSKY, MD, LOVELINE CO-HOST: I agree with about 80 percent of your memo, Bill, interestingly enough. The fact, though, is that although kids need to be out of the business of providing tools for sexuality, they are in the business of educating kids. And one of the hot sort of areas of discussion right now is whether that information should be censored in some way, whether or not discussing sexuality or discussing sexual options and sexual behaviors somehow encourages kids to have sex. And I think this study goes a long way to suggesting that's not the case, that you can discuss all kinds of behaviors with kids, including drugs and driving fast and wearing seat belts. And just because you bring up these topics does not mean that they're going to engage in those behaviors. O'REILLY: Oh, all right. But I mean, we're not talking about bringing them up. We're talking about giving them out. And that's what the study was. Now overall, the study s concluded there was no difference in pregnancy rate among students at schools that gave out condoms and didn't. PINSKY: Right. O'REILLY: So there's no reason to give them out there, doctor. PINSKY: Well, but... O'REILLY: There's no reason to give them out at all, if there's no difference in the pregnancy rate, correct? PINKSKY: If pregnancy is your goal, but there was a far greater difference in condom use in one population versus the other. The kids that had access to condoms - interestingly, they didn't want to get the free condoms. But the idea that condoms were available were an okay. And they knew how to use them increased the probability that they would use them... O'REILLY: Now wait a minute... PINKSKY: ...or that they would use them properly. O'REILLY: All right well I mean... PINKSKY: If you read the study, it says they didn't really like -- they were embarrassed to go up pick up the free condoms, but the idea that this was an okay behavior, this is an appropriate behavior, encouraged their use. O'REILLY: Well, look, I don't know whether it encourages their use or not, but I do know that with STDs, I think that's probably the only place where you might gain here... PINKSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: ...if it is true that there's no difference in the pregnancy rate. However, once again, you're creating an environment in an academic atmosphere that says, look, this off-campus - because we assume they're not having sex in biology class. PINKSKY: Right. O'REILLY: And maybe in some schools they are, but we're assuming they're doing - this off-campus activity, all right, is now going to be dealt with in a concrete way, not an academic, a theoretical way by this public school. So why can't we deal with -- if you're going to take drugs then, why shouldn't you smoke it in the gym so you don't have to drive your car some place? It's just... PINKSKY: Well, the crazy thing is - the crazy thing in our public schools is we do have areas to smoke cigarettes. They tell you not to smoke cigarettes, but if you're going to smoke cigarettes... O'REILLY: No, we're talking about an illegal activity, though. Look... PINKSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: ...it's illegal for a lot of kids to have sex. That's number one. All right, so you're giving kids who are minors condoms. And you I don't know what they're going to do with the condoms or who's going to do it, or what's going to do it. It's unsupervised activity. You're skirting a legal thing. And number two, again, you are then taking on a responsibility that is not yours to take on... PINKSKY: Well... O'REILLY: ...particularly if you don't inform the parents. PINKSKY: ...interesting, Bill, I actually agree with you. I actually agree that public schools are not in the business of handing out condoms. But they -- one of the problems now is that we go from -- we're not going to give out condoms to abstinence, the only viable discussion. O'REILLY: Oh, no. no. You're spinning it now. I'm not saying about... PINKSKY: No, no... O'REILLY: ...abstinence only. PINKSKY: ...no, it's something I said. O'REILLY: I say shut up about any point of view. Just give them information. And I don't mean by... PINKSKY: I agree with you. O'REILLY: I don't mean by taking a banana in the class and tell me -- I don't mean that. PINKSKY: If that's what they need, maybe they need that (unintelligible.) O'REILLY: Well, if they need it, they should get it from their parents. Okay? Because I don't want to be a teacher saying that. I don't think that's right. PINKSKY: I actually agree with you, Bill. But 85 percent of parents say they want the information to be given at school. They're asking... O'REILLY: Then they can hire a private tutor, a condom tutor to come into the -- look, the parents, sure, there are a lot of loony parents that don't want to discuss anything with their kids... PINKSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: ...and would be more than happy if you do it on the radio. I'll do it on the television and our Ms. Brooks does it in school. PINKSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: Hey, that doesn't make it right. PINKSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: It's -- we have lost sight of the fact in this country that academic institutions are there to instruct, to inform, and to hold children accountable in an academic way, not for what they do off campus. PINKSKY: Can I just rebut that in one way? And that is that in terms of outcome, behavioral outcomes, we tend to have the best success with kids if the school, the teachers, and the parents line up on issues in unison. In fact, if parents sign contracts agreeing off campus what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable, and get the school to sign on to those same kind of parameters, we have much greater success in terms of getting kids to maintain abstinence, not use drugs. O'REILLY: Yes. I am -- I'm all for a full-court press, all right, to teach children responsible behavior but I am not for taking a point of view. Look, I would -- I think it's just as wrong for a teacher to walk into school and say if you have sex, you're going to hell. All right? Or you're a bad person. All right? Now I don't think the teacher should impose that point of view. They might say, and I think this is legitimate, if you don't have sex, if you are - if you practice abstinence, then you can't get an STD. PINSKY: That's right. O'REILLY: Then you can't get... PINKSKY: It's the fact. It's a fact. O'REILLY: But that's exactly right. That's a fact. That's okay. PINSKY: Yes. O'REILLY: But once you cross the line to advocacy, which you do, doctor, when you give out a condom, you're crossing the advocacy line. No way in a public school system. I'll give you the last word on it. PINKSKY: I actually agree with you. I think schools are not in the business of providing the tools for these things, but they are in the business of giving information. And we really have to be sure we protect that, that the kids have access to the information they need. O'REILLY: I'll give you information. PINSKY: So if they want to get access to condoms, they know where to go. O'REILLY: That's right. I'll give them a road map to Rite-Aid. Or I'll - here's the pharmacy. You don't know how to get there? We'll give you directions. PINSKY: Well... O'REILLY: All right, doctor, thanks very much. We appreciate it.. PINKSKY: Thank you, Bill. O'REILLY: Next on the "rundown," an illegal alien allegedly murders a cop in Oceanside, California. We told you about it. We will talk with the chief of police who's supporting that Mexican ID card many illegals have. And later, more controversy from child killer David Westerfield's attorneys. Not going to believe this. We'll be back with it.
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April 25, 2002
KASICH: Dr. Drew, do you feel like your money is being wasted by this program? DREW PINSKY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS: I am not sure it's being wasted, but I agree with Mr. Mcilhaney. No one wants to promote this, but I'm not sure what we mean when we say you can't promote the use of contraceptives. KASICH: We're saying you shouldn't use condoms and have sex. It won't protect you. That's what it says. PINSKY: That, I think, is a mistake. That's like saying you shouldn't wear seat belts because unless you wear the seat belt 100 percent of the time, you're going to go through the windshield. So I don't really understand the language here about promoting the use of condoms and promoting contraceptive. I really think that the issue here -- look, I'm fortunately we all get bogged down in ideology. I really commend Dr. Mcilhaney as looking at this as a medical and a health issue, which indeed it is. But I think it's time for us all to get together and decide what's good for kids, not get bogged down in ideology. And it sounds like we're all kind of starting to go talk about the same thing. KASICH: Well, let me just say this. I've got -- Dr. Drew, we happen to have your book here in the studio. And they ask you apparently in your book how do you define safe sex. Can we put this up on the -- "safe sex by definition is abstinence. Everything else is risk reduction." What the Congress decided was to say we want to promote abstinence, not risk reduction. I mean, what... PINSKY: That's great. KASICH: ...what we're doing in this program is exactly what you advocate in this book, isn't it? PINSKY: Well, it is. It sounded like it's becoming that. But originally, there was a lot of emphasis put on not discussing sexuality, using fear techniques to scare kids. And you know, I've dealt with adolescents for many, many years. And when you scare kids into a behavior, what you see is a reduction for about six months. And then it increases pass the baseline. For instance, things like abstinence pledges, which is a great idea, have not shown to reduce pregnancy. The kids that do make the abstinence pledges when they go against, they make choices that go against those pledges, tend to not use contraceptives. So we really need to look at these things very carefully and apply science, apply things that do work where it's possible. KASICH: Well, I think that's not true. I don't think your statistics are right. I mean, we've got many studies that show that abstinent vows have really had an impact. A.C. Green, the basketball player, is a virgin and in the NBA and funds big programs around the country. And they've got a lot of evidence that it works. Doesn't it, Dr. Joe? PINSKY: That's right. There's all sorts of evidence it works. In Monroe County -- program done by the public health people there actually showed a very significant -- lots of kids didn't get pregnant that would have gotten pregnant before. It's shown by the statistics. And the number of kids in the United States getting pregnant over the past year since 1990 has been declining right along, correlated with the declining number of teens, who are getting sexually involved. Over half the kids in the United States now in high schools across the country are still virgins. And so, what we're seeing with these programs, Congressman Kasich, that you helped start is an increasing sophistication. These programs are following the modern education theories. They're being taught by health educators, by very sophisticated competent people. KASICH: Dr. Joe, let me ask Dr. Drew. Let me ask Dr. Drew this question. PINSKY: Sure. KASICH: You know, we talk about fear. OK, fear, you know, don't do this. Now... PINSKY: Yes. KASICH: ...the most effective prevention I understand is not to say don't have sex, but, rather, it's a message of control your body, have discipline, which -- isn't there a large element of fear when we have now found that condoms, for example, are not any guaranteed protection against sexually transmitted diseases? These young kids... PINSKY: Of course, they're not a guarantee. They never were meant to be a guarantee. And you quoted my book, where we state it very, very clearly. It's of course not a guarantee. KASICH: Right. PINSKY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). KASICH: Fear is, look, if you have sex, you can catch a disease that you can never get rid of. PINSKY: I'll tell you how fear works with kids. When they can hear the consequences of bad choices in their peers, when their peers tell stories about what happens to them, that's not fear. That's actually empathy. And when adults say don't do this because a bad thing will happen to you, and they find out that that may not be quite accurate, they will not listen much else you have to say. So really, peer counseling models, where they talk to kids that have made bad choices, work great. KASICH: What about the habit in America where we were sort of not having any peers say that, because you know, they didn't hear much about that? It was about let us teach you all about sex. I mean, isn't this a notion where we're now trying to have adults explain the health effects, the pregnancy effect? And I mean, it seems to me... PINSKY: Congressman, it sounds to me like we're all saying the same thing, frankly. We're not disagreeing. Although you are trying to paint me with a certain brush. KASICH: I'm not -- hey, listen, doc, I'm not trying to paint you. I'm just saying to you, either you favor extending this program and saying that we should teach abstinence or we shouldn't. I mean, you can't have it both ways. You paint yourself. PINSKY: Listen, social norm of abstinence is a great message. But it's not such a great message to abstain from talking about other elements. If -- as long as it's not restrictive. MCILHANEY: The programs don't keep us from talking about those. They don't keep these educators from talking about these other techniques. The reason abstinence education became necessary was because of the failure. We've had 20 years of so-called comprehensive sexuality education. And not one single one of those programs has - produced a decrease in teen pregnancy or -- wait just a second -- a decrease in teen pregnancy, decrease in STDS. As a matter of fact, the Centers for Disease Control has programs they call Programs at Work. They don't even measure whether or not pregnancy rates go down or STD rates go down. KASICH: Well let's... MCILHANEY: As a matter of fact, they actually make sex a game. KASICH: Dr. Drew, look, I've got to give you -- we're running out of time. I want to give you the last word. PINSKY: Sure. Well, just that we need to look at this very systematically and dispassionately and not get bogged down in ideology. We have a huge problem in this country. We need to all get together, and solve the problem, and look at what does and does not work. The average age of onset of sexual activity in this country is about 15.8. In Holland, it's 17.5. They have comprehensive education there. What's different? They have intact families. They have social normatives that we don't have. We're a very heterogeneous society, but we need to support our kids and create very stable support systems. KASICH: Well, I tell you I support my kids, Dr. Drew. But I tell you, I'm going to tell them, we're not going to have any sex. Oh, you know, they've got to... PINSKY: Me, too. KASICH: It's not about protection. It's about abstinence. So anyway, I want to thank both of you for being with us. Thank you for your contributions. Coming up next, the FACTOR flashback, a big split within United Way about funding the Boy Scouts in the wake of their ban on gay leaders. We'll tell you about it in a moment. LOAD-DATE: July 10, 2003
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August 20, 2001
O'REILLY: In the "Impact" segment tonight, criticism of the Bush administration for not wanting to spend tax dollars on sexual issues. Mr. Bush is cutting off funds for overseas abortion clinics and is cutting back money for programs that don't stress abstinence above all else. Currently, the Feds spend $227 million taxpayer dollars on Sex Ed. Joining us now from Los Angeles is Dr. Drew Pinsky, the co-host of MTV's "Loveline" and a medical director at Los Encinas Hospital in Pasadena. All right, doctor, now I understand why the Bush administration does not want to spend federal money on here, particularly after reading that horrendous article in "The New York Times" yesterday that said gays in San Francisco in a survey are now not using condoms to the tune, they're up 20 percent from where they were in 1994 in unprotected sex. So why are we spending all this money when the message isn't getting through? DREW PINSKY, CO-HOST, "LOVELINE": Well, most of the money is being spent on abstinence-only programs and that may be -- is why things aren't working. What I don't understand, Bill, is why we choose to look at this one health behavior and treat it differently than we treat other health behaviors? O'REILLY: OK, I got to correct you on one thing. Most of the money isn't spent on abstinence. It's something like $87 million on abstinence only and the rest out of $227 on you know, regular birth control and... PINSKY: You're talking about the entire... O'REILLY: Yes, the federal incursion. Look, you have sex ed in school, right, doctor? All the public schools have that now. All right? You have supposedly sex ed at home. At least, you should. PINSKY: We should. O'REILLY: I mean, why do we need to do this, spend this taxpayer money when the people who need the message the most, the gays most at risk of getting AIDS, are saying, hey, I'm going to do what I want anyway. I don't care what you say. PINSKY: Well, to answer your question, I think this goes to the point of what we're talking about, which is that we've used a lot of scare tactics when it comes to trying to change health behavior, particularly the homosexual population. We're telling them, you know, you do anything, you're going to die of AIDS. O'REILLY: Yes. PINSKY: Well, they're trying to assess reality on their own. And they're realizing that perhaps things are overstated. O'REILLY: Well, they're not. Infection rates are way up. PINSKY: They in fact were plateauing and were down. The pool is increasing because people are surviving longer with it. But the fact is, it is a very hard thing to change people's behaviors. O'REILLY: OK, and I agree with you 100 percent. It's very hard to change stupid behavior. We've seen that for the last 2,000 years. So why should we spend money trying? PINSKY: Yes. Well, I think -- listen. My point is, and I believe this to be what all of our concerns should be, the health and well being of young Americans. I mean, this is really -- this is the launching pad for their lives. And if we really don't look at this as a health issue, we're going to have a really sorry looking population. O'REILLY: It is a health issue. PINSKY: It is a health issue and should be dealt with as just as other health issues are, other health behaviors. Young peoples' health issues are basically reproductive health, mental health, drugs and alcohol. That's it. And it's all behavioral. And we look at say drugs and alcohol. No one would ever suggest that we not talk about drug and alcohol use, lest it should lead to their use. O'REILLY: But doctor, you've got this in the public school system now. You've got it in the curriculum. Why do we need -- look, I'm not even against this. I would take public service announcements out if I were the federal government. That's how I would do it. I'd never send money out to people. That's just a waste. That is just the biggest waste, sending those checks out in the mail. That's nuts because these local people use that money for, you know, whatever else they want to use it for. And I believe, as you stated, you're not going to change stupid peoples' behavior. They're going to have high-risk sex if they want to have it. They're going to get blasted. And they're going to have it. And no matter how much money you spend. But I want the government to be responsible with my tax money, doctor. And I don't think they're being... PINSKY: I'm with you. Well, I'm with you. I mean, maybe the plan ought to be us teaching parents how to teach kids how to have more appropriate action. Maybe we ought to be spending our money. O'REILLY: You're always going have irresponsible parents, too. All right? PINSKY: Well. So basically, should we throw in the towel? Should we just say forget it, people are unhealthy and that's... O'REILLY: No, you have a structure. You have the school structure teaching sex ed. And abstinence-only, I believe, works because you don't get disease and you don't have unwanted pregnancies when you're abstinent. All right? Come on. PINSKY: I absolutely agree with you. No one who works in the health field, that are taking care of young people, would disagree that abstinence is the goal. O'REILLY: Yes. PINSKY: It is the goal. The problem is, abstinence only educational programs tend to be -- tend to censor. They tend to be counterproductive. They tend to use fear tactics. And the data shows very clearly that if you try to scare kids into certain behavior, you'll see a drop-off for about three months and then a rebound pass the basal. O'REILLY: Yes, when they forget about it. But I think that the scare tactics with AIDS is the way to go here, doctor. I mean, come on. PINSKY: Well... O'REILLY: These guys out in San Francisco were saying, "Oh, we don't care. We're going to do whatever we want." They're nuts. They're crazy. PINSKY: Well, I think that is a backlash to things having been overstated to them. And when they assess their reality, and they assess their own risk, it's not quite what's been stated to them... O'REILLY: Sure it is. You know, it is exactly -- it's worse. PINSKY: Not as they experience. It's bad. Listen, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there isn't a real risk and it's not bad and they shouldn't be highly aware of it. But young people are exquisitely sensitive to information they get from adults. It's got to be accurate or they dismiss the whole thing. O'REILLY: It is accurate. If you're going to have unprotected homosexual sex... PINSKY: You're at risk. O'REILLY: You bet. And you can die. And at best, you're going to have drugs all over the place. And your whole life is going to be in an uproar. And that's not overstating it, doctor. Well, we appreciate your point of view. Thanks very much.
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April 3, 2000
O'REILLY: Thanks for staying with us. I'm Bill O'Reilly. And in the "Personal Story" segment tonight, according to almost every study taken, kids in America are having sex at very young ages, and there is controversy how to deal with that. Dr. Drew Pinsky is a practicing medical doctor who also hosts a popular radio show, "Loveline," and has launched a Web site aimed at kids as young as 14 about sex. Dr. Pinsky joins us now. Now I've -- I've looked at your Web site. I have a whole bunch of things that we downloaded today. It's pretty explicit. It's pretty explicit. There's not a lot here that -- I mean, it's right -- it's out there. It's in your face. DR. DREW PINSKY, DRDREW.COM, "LOVELINE" TV-RADIO TALK-SHOW HOST: Well, it's -- it's true. It's just trying to meet kids on their turf. O'REILLY: Right. PINSKY: I really -- if I had it any other way, I would not be climbing into this kind vehicle, but that's what's there right now. O'REILLY: But the problem is that there are urban kids who are very savvy and sophisticated by the time they're 14, and then there are naive kids who don't know about this and who are a little sheltered. Anybody can get into your Web site. I mean, you -- you targeted from 14 up, but a 10- year-old can get in. That might open up some problems, no? PINSKY: I agree with you. I think parenting need to -- parents need to do their job. I -- I would let only 14, 15, and older get in. I -- listen, the government -- if the government's doing anything in terms of controlling what's on the Web, they need to help us as parents do the job of containing and structuring that environment. Kids can get into all kinds of stuff on the Web. It's just a disaster. O'REILLY: Sure, but it's harder to get into the adult sites because you have to pay. PINSKY: I am delighted if parents would like to close us out under the age of 15. That's fine with me. O'REILLY: All right. So you -- you tell parents, "Look, use the chip or use whatever you have" to close... PINSKY: Absolutely. O'REILLY: ... you down. PINSKY: Do the parenting, yeah. O'REILLY: But even 14 years old for your site might be a little young for... PINSKY: Listen, I am a huge advocate of abstinence only messages. I think that's the way to go. But the problem is the horse is out of the barn. I mean, there's a forest fire, and we all need to pick up a shovel and start digging right now, and I... O'REILLY: That's true. That's for sure. PINSKY: And then it would -- what has not been established in the literature is whether or not you can have both access to things like condoms and saying -- and just say no messages, abstinence messages, and whether they can coexist effectively. O'REILLY: But was it smart for you to do the condom promotion? See, I -- let me just -- "drdrew.com distributed one million free condoms via the Internet" -- "announced today they will give away one million condoms to anyone 16 years of age or older." Was this -- was that smart? PINSKY: Average age of onset of sexual activity in the United States is 15-1/2, 15.2, around in that area. That's... O'REILLY: So what if I'm a 12-year-old kid and I say I'm 16? I get my three condoms from Dr. Drew. PINSKY: I -- I -- regrettable mistake. O'REILLY: But you -- it's a mistake, but it can happen very easily. PINSKY: I don't know that -- we ask for registration, but, obviously, people can lie on the... O'REILLY: Sure. PINSKY: ... thing, but, again, this -- this gets back to parenting, and I'll tell you what. I'm with you. I'm with you. I feel ambushed as a parent all the time by the media, and... O'REILLY: I don't know whether I would have given away the million condoms. I don't know whether I would have done that, I've got to tell you, Doctor. Look, I understand what you're saying, and I'm for all the information, and I'm not objecting to the way -- I think some of the stuff's a little explicit, what you do. I think I would tone it down a little... PINSKY: Sure. O'REILLY: ... but I'm not objecting to you trying to give information to help children. PINSKY: Yeah. O'REILLY: I don't think I would give away free condoms because anybody can get them, and this smacks of sensationalism, just to me, just my opinion. PINSKY: Sure. I understand. I understand. And it was a choice. It was a decision. O'REILLY: All right. Maybe you'll want to rethink that. Now why, in your opinion, are children having sex at a younger age? PINSKY: The -- there's two big issues. One is we are doing the world's -- the world's literally worst job of parenting. We just have a total disaster. O'REILLY: In America. PINSKY: Total disaster in our families. The primary relationships are abandoning, abusive, and set up -- set up the kinds of relationships with their peers that are just awful. Let's face it. Then we have a culture that these kids come into in their young teenage years with no ability to regulate affect. They have not been given the kinds of primary nurturance they need in order to regulate their feelings. They feel bad. They go into a culture that says, "Well, here's how you feel better. There's drugs. There's fast cars. There's sex. These are the things you go do, and you'll feel better," and you know what? They do feel better, and some of them get into this... O'REILLY: But don't all kids... PINSKY: ... and it's the exact wrong message. O'REILLY: ... at the outset of adolescence feel bad? Don't they -- isn't that a natural state? PINSKY: No, no. Oh, not like -- not like right now. Listen, in my - - in The Netherlands, they're starting sex at 17.8. In the United States, it's 15. O'REILLY: Well, I don't know about The Netherlands. In Denmark, it's 13. I mean, in some of those Scandinavian countries -- but let me ask you this. What is the primary reason why parents are so bad, in your opinion? PINSKY: Well, there's -- there's multiple reasons. One, there's sort of abandonment issues, a lack of sort of acknowledging the importance of staying in the home and keeping the... O'REILLY: All right. So they fracture the family now. PINSKY: They fracture the family and... O'REILLY: Al right. Say you have two parents, and they're working, and they're tired and all of that. PINSKY: That is an abandoning quality. Now prioritizing the parenting. The parenting must be the most important function we serve. Let's face it. We've gone through a huge wave of narcissism in the last 30 years where people just -- you do what you want, whatever makes you happy, and no -- no real importance put on what kids' needs are for those primary connections. In order to come into life feeling whole... O'REILLY: I agree with you. I think there are a lot of selfish people in this country, and... PINSKY: Oh, unbelievable. O'REILLY: ... and their kids are picking that up. PINSKY: And the market -- the media has come up to meet this market of kids that are... O'REILLY: Sure. They -- people will always exploit that. PINSKY: Oh, it's... O'REILLY: Always. PINSKY: It's a disaster, but -- but you've got -- you can use those media -- you can tag on to them to bring -- bring it back to help. There's no sense of what's unhealthy and healthy in the media right now, and somebody needs to get down and talk about that difference. That's what they do in Europe. They have explicit discussions, but they talk about what's bad about sex and what's good about it and what's -- intimacy is the thing people... O'REILLY: In Europe, there's a -- there's a very liberal attitude toward it, whereas America -- we don't. PINSKY: And we have a worse problem. I'm all for... O'REILLY: I don't know about that. PINSKY: Well, I'm all for conservative attitude, but I -- I think you and I would see eye to eye on just about everything except my choice that I distribute condoms, I suspect. O'REILLY: Right, right. All right, Doctor. I want to continue this discussion with you sometime. I think it's a very interesting problem because there's... PINSKY: Awful. O'REILLY: ... kids having oral sex all over the place, and I don't think... PINSKY: It's unbelievable. O'REILLY: ... the president helped us out on that either. You know what I mean? We've got to run. We can't get into that. But I don't think all that publicity... PINSKY: I'm with you, and I'm not with you. O'REILLY: All right. But we'll talk again. PINSKY: Thanks. O'REILLY: Thanks for coming in, Doctor. And, up next, we've got the inside story on what is contained in some of the FBI's most secret files about some big-name ballplayers. It's opening day. That story next. —Marc | 
